GB Plates. How long can I keep them on?

[SimonR]

Hi

I've been renting a place in France since November and have a GB registered car. Have driven back every 6 weeks or so ( insurance limitations). In an ideal world I'd like to hang on to the car till May, sell it in the UK then but something French - if we decide to stay.

Am I legal? And how long can I drive round France with GB plates as a 'temporary resident'?

SimonR

[Oboulez]

By the letter of the law it is the same as in Britain for foreign registered vehicles - 6 months continuous. I dont want to attract any rightous comments by daring to suggest that if you kept it for 7 months the chances of coming unstuck would be pretty remote if you have a UK address with the relevant driving documents in that address........

[Gardengirl]

I would have thought that you would start counting again each time you've returned to UK. You can prove you've only been in the country for ........ amount of time, with ferry/Eurotunnel tickets. Our car only stays for around 3 months at a time, but is probably over the 6 months at times. It might be thought by some that it's in France all year with UK plates etc, but we can prove the entry and leaving dates.  

[Oboulez]

The 'clock' does indeed start again whenever the car leaves france.

[AnOther]

You can use a vehicle in France for up to 6 months in any 12 which can be, but is not necessarily, continuous as as previously stated.

I'd check on that insurance though if I were you as the typical UK insurance permitted period of foreign use is an annual total and is not reset each time you return. 6 weeks is itself is an uncommon enough allowance but additionally it would be an unusual policy which permitted any number of 6 week periods.

That said the permitted days only relate to the extension of the level of cover you have in UK, presumably comprehensive, but after those have expired you remain covered but for 3rd party risks only.

A word of caution, if push came to shove I'm not convinced that ferry tickets alone would be considered as conclusive proof of travel [;-)]

[Oboulez]

Here is the legislation as applicable in the UK, however it is applicable throughout the EU. Apologies for the slight error in the previous post.

"EU vehicles brought into the UK can be used for six months in any 12-month period. You do not need to register the vehicle in the UK as long as you can show that the vehicle complies with the registration and tax requirements of its home country. It’s the responsibility of the driver to prove how long the vehicle has been in the country. Producing ferry tickets can do this.

If the keeper of the vehicle becomes resident in the UK, the vehicle must be immediately registered and taxed in the UK.

UK residents are not allowed to use a foreign registered vehicle on UK roads. The exception is when a UK resident: is employed or self-employed in another EU member state uses a EU registered company car temporarily in the UK for business purposes.Certain vehicles will be required to display a temporary 'Q' plate. Temporary visitor status isn't appropriate to these vehicles".

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="AnOther"]
I'd check on that insurance though if I were you as the typical UK insurance permitted period of foreign use is an annual total and is not reset each time you return. 6 weeks is itself is an uncommon enough allowance but additionally it would be an unusual policy which permitted any number of 6 week periods.[/quote]

 I think your statement regarding "typical UK insurance" could be misleading.

I've had one insurance policy which permitted multi-trips of up to 6 weeks duration per trip, and my current insurance provides unlimited trips without restriction on length of stay.

I agree, one should double check ones insurance cover and obtain clarification from the insurer if needed.

[Pickles]

[quote user="SimonR"]I've been renting a place in France since November[/quote]

The key issue here is where you are resident (as opposed to being a visitor). If you are now resident in France, then you have only ONE month in which to re-register your car. There is not really a distinction between a "temporary resident" and a "permanent resident" in this regard: the distinction is between resident and visitor.

The "6 months in 12" rule only applies if you are resident outside France and you are a visitor.

Regards

Pickles

[AnOther]

Yes, as with any insurance in case of doubt enquiring with the specific insurer is the only way to be sure.

Like most though I've had several different policies over the years, and to tend to actually read them for stuff like this, so I stand by my comment that typically the period is not reset by touching UK soil. I'm not saying that multi trip policies do not exist just that they are not the norm and when one says something like 'xx days' it is unsafe to assume that it means per trip and not in total. Unfortunately I suspect a lot of people do assume that or else knowingly play the system by 'writing off' an incident free trip in order to reuse their days for the next one, this is why you are supposed to inform your insurer before taking your car abroad.

Whilst the chances of coming a cropper may be slim if the insurer smells a rat, and they are not stupid, the onus will always fall on you the insured to prove your case. It's up to the individual whether or not to take the chance of course but far better it's an informed decision than one in misunderstanding or ignorance.

I wonder who your very generous multi trip policy is with as it sounds as if it could well be of use to others ?

[Gardengirl]

For many of us, the length of time for which car insurance permits foreign travel is paramount. For many years we had one with the Caravan Club which allowed us to specify a period of time, and we paid extra for longer periods, which could be up to about 6 months as far as I remember. We now have Saga cover, which permits us to leave the car abroad for just short of a year - far more than we require, but which means we don't have to keep account of numbers of days. It was a lot cheaper than we had imagined, as it comes with our UK car insurance with them.

For both of these you need to be UK resident.

 

 

[Bob T]

[quote user="gardengirl "]

For many of us, the length of time for which car insurance permits foreign travel is paramount. For many years we had one with the Caravan Club which allowed us to specify a period of time, and we paid extra for longer periods, which could be up to about 6 months as far as I remember. We now have Saga cover, which permits us to leave the car abroad for just short of a year - far more than we require, but which means we don't have to keep account of numbers of days. It was a lot cheaper than we had imagined, as it comes with our UK car insurance with them.

For both of these you need to be UK resident.

 

[/quote]

But under French law a car that is left here for a year should be French registered.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Bob T"][quote user="gardengirl "]For many of us, the length of time for which car insurance permits foreign travel is paramount. For many years we had one with the Caravan Club which allowed us to specify a period of time, and we paid extra for longer periods, which could be up to about 6 months as far as I remember. We now have Saga cover, which permits us to leave the car abroad for just short of a year - far more than we require, but which means we don't have to keep account of numbers of days. It was a lot cheaper than we had imagined, as it comes with our UK car insurance with them.

For both of these you need to be UK resident.[/quote]

But under French law a car that is left here for a year should be French registered.[/quote]

Yes, but all GG was saying was that using the Saga policy, the car can be abroad (ie outside the UK) for nearly a year. It might spend up to 6 months in France and the rest of the time in Spain, Germany, Italy, etc. GG didn't say that the car spent more than 6 months in France.

Regards

Pickles

[Cendrillon]

A local British builder near us still drives around in his U.K. registered truck and he has been living in France for some years now, how does that work?[blink]

[Pickles]

[quote user="Cendrillon"]A local British builder near us still drives around in his U.K. registered truck and he has been living in France for some years now, how does that work?[blink][/quote]

As the builder lives in France then, as I suspect you well know, it doesn't. At least, not legally (unless the van is a company vehicle and is based in the UK and spends most of its time in the UK). Just because there are quite a few people who are flouting the law, it doesn't make their actions legal.

Regards

Pickles

[Chancer]

You can have a vehicle on contract hire from Luxembourg (just for the example) which will quite legally remain on Lux plates despite never leaving France for the full 3-5 years of the contract period.

A bonus of this is the virtual impunity from speed camera tickest as the hire companies just file them in the poubelle.

Not surprisingly it is a very popular option for Parisien hommes d'affaires driving Porsches etc, only one has ever been taken to justice, his vehicle with allegedly him driving having racked up many hundreds of unpaid amendes, the prosecution eventually dropped all but a handfull of charges as the driver could not clearly be identified, in court he was only found guilty of 2 IIRC, he is appealing against the decision.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Chancer"]You can have a vehicle on contract hire from Luxembourg (just for the example) which will quite legally remain on Lux plates despite never leaving France for the full 3-5 years of the contract period.[/quote]

This would seem to be contrary to EU directives as tested by the Cura Anlagen case and referred to the last time we did this: however it may be that France has chosen to have a more lenient policy with regards to foreign-registered lease cars - which it is allowed to do.

EDIT: it would appear that France doesn't have a more lenient policy with regards to foreign-registered lease cars: the issue here seems to be that Luxembourg will not disclose the details of lease contracts - ie who is the keeper of the vehicle - and so the only offences that can be pursued are those where there is either clear photographic evidence of who is driving, or else where the vehicle is stopped by the authorities.

[quote user="Chancer"]A bonus of this is the virtual impunity from speed camera tickest as the hire companies just file them in the poubelle.[/quote]

I may be being thick here, but isn't this really the ONLY reason why one might wish to enter into such a lease? Or are there other benefits (eg lower lease costs, lower insurance, etc)?

EDIT: I've just come across this from France Soir

Regards

Pickles

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="AnOther"]

I wonder who your very generous multi trip policy is with as it sounds as if it could well be of use to others ?

[/quote]

Saga has already been mentioned, the CSMA offer a generous package, in my opinion NFU Mutual offers the best.

[SimonR]

[quote user="Pickles"][quote user="SimonR"]I've been renting a place in France since November[/quote]

The key issue here is where you are resident (as opposed to being a visitor). If you are now resident in France, then you have only ONE month in which to re-register your car. There is not really a distinction between a "temporary resident" and a "permanent resident" in this regard: the distinction is between resident and visitor.

The "6 months in 12" rule only applies if you are resident outside France and you are a visitor.

Regards

Pickles

[/quote]

Firstly, thanks for all the feedback. Food for thought indeed. I'm guessing the 'residency' thing may well override everything else.....

Secondly, we are now toying with the idea of buying a French registered car from friends who have moved back to the UK. Hopefully this will simplify everything. Will this need to be re-registered in our region?

[cooperlola]

[quote user="SimonR"][. Will this need to be re-registered in our region?


[/quote]It depends.  If it has a department number in the registration (ie if it ends in two digits) then it does need to be re-registered with the new-style numbering system (non department-specific), but if this has already been done then it keeps the new-sytle number for life.

Obviously, its carte grise needs to be re-registered in your name though, regardless.

[Pierre ZFP]

[quote user="Chancer"]

You can have a vehicle on contract hire from Luxembourg (just for the example) which will quite legally remain on Lux plates despite never leaving France for the full 3-5 years of the contract period.

A bonus of this is the virtual impunity from speed camera tickest as the hire companies just file them in the poubelle.

Not surprisingly it is a very popular option for Parisien hommes d'affaires driving Porsches etc, only one has ever been taken to justice, his vehicle with allegedly him driving having racked up many hundreds of unpaid amendes, the prosecution eventually dropped all but a handfull of charges as the driver could not clearly be identified, in court he was only found guilty of 2 IIRC, he is appealing against the decision.

[/quote]

This used to be so but there has been a bit of a clampdown recently.  For personally owned Lux registered cars you can and do get French speeding tickets as I had one last year.  Hire companies (well at least Avis and Hetz) point out very carefully and in large letters that if you get a ticket in one of their vehicles, you are liable and will be pursued!

[Kevinmc]

Part of the reason they'll only rent to credit card holders, so they can bill you are their leisure

[Chancer]

The television feature showed the bosses of contract hire companies in Lux binning the tickets, I am sure the tickets find their way to the registered owners in Lux be they particuliers or contract hire companies just as I got one here in France from Belgium which also was filed in the bin.

Either the contract hire operators (I must precise these are not the Hertz's and Avis's but the ones that target the rich Parisiens) know that the amendes are no more than hot air and cannot be enforced in Lux or they know that they are not liable not being the driver, my ticket from Belgium for example didnt even ask if I was or to identify the driver.

The way the Paris police are getting over this slowly is to target foreign registered grosse berlines and contrôle the identity of the drivers, then they can send any new amendes to them.