Katieb Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 We have just had our offer accepted for a property on sale with the Notaire and were advised yesterday that the property will not be available for us to occupy until the end of May (we were already aware of this situation as the vendors are moving to a brand new property which will not be ready until that date). However, the sting in the tail is that the acte de vente will take place at the end of February which is when they require full payment! Thus, we will pay for and own a property in February but it will not be available to us until May. Obviously we will be losing interest on our money but where also do we stand legally ie; house insurance, should the vendors pay us rent??? This situation seems totally ludricous to us and we were very shocked by it. Does anybody know if this is usual in France (obviously the vendors need finance to pay for their house to be built - and we are supplying it)We will of course be seeking legal advise but are still having problems finding an english speaking French accountant in our area - dept 72 but quite near dept 61 - any help or recommendations would be great.ThanksKate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Personally would not touch this with proverbial barge pole - what would happen if they declined to move out for another year ? The vendors could easily move into genuinely rented accommodation if they wish. If you have not yet signed anything and have not paid any money then back out NOW.Johnnot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 It sounds as if somebody is taking the proverbial p###. The usual practice is that when the Acte de Vente is signed, the house and all that is in it, passes to the buyer (it usually gets mentioned here because the seller leaves a load of rubbish behind which then becomes the buyer's responsibility) and the buyer must insure the property.No doubt the seller and the notaire think that the naive British who don't speak French and don't understand the system will accept any conditions - not an uncommon situation either.John's advice is good. Refuse to have anything to do with it. It's a buyer's market out there, with plenty of other houses available. If you have paid a deposit and/or really want to go ahead despite this advice then appoint your own notaire - you are paying the fees anyway, and advice on this sort of thing won't usually cost extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejc Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Hi,On the surface this sounds similar to our situation, in Sept 04 we found our dream home and the vendors were having a house built, they needed us to sign the compromis - so they could then obtain a loan to cover them for the build cost of their home that would be repaid when we completed - but then the acte would only take place after their new home was completed and ready to move into. This mean that the final acte de vente wasn't until late May this year.Everything worked out pretty smoothly after 1 minor last minute panic / misunderstanding. If you really love this house - why not see if your vendors will do the same as ours did. I agree - that I would not sign the acte without vacent posession - but hopefully there will be a solution that you can all come to that will give you this house.If they won't work something out - walk away there will be other properties - but you don't want to risk having paid out for a home and then the previous owners refuse to move out thaty would be a complete nightmare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzie15 Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 This sounds like madness! You sign the acte de vente,you own the property- of course they can't just stay in it!! What if their house build is delayed?You could be in a huge can of worms.Let them move out and rent until the new house is ready or else complete in May-you still need vacant possession though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkfluff<P>Big Wet Drops and Lots of Them, Are a Sure Sign of Rain!<P> Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 I wonder how many new builds are finished within schedule not many I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 We have just sold our house and are having a New Build. We thought it would take longer than it did to sell our house so we put it straight on the market. We didn't want to find ourselves with two houses, one of which couldn't be paid for because we hadn't sold the first. The new house will not be available for a year so we are renting. Property does not move that quickly in France and because of this they may feel concerned about losing a prospective buyer. How long has their property been on the market? If it does not bother you that they will remain in the house until May why don't you suggest that they stay but that they pay rent and have a rental agreement that states the date by which they must vacate the property? Unless this place is a real steal or something, you feel, you may never find again, then I would either negociate or RUN! Once you have signed official paperwork it's going to be very hard to change your mind without it costing you money and heartache.If you need someone who can speak to your Notaire about your options, let me know. I can recommend someone who may be able to help. Send me a PM.Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katieb Posted October 20, 2005 Author Share Posted October 20, 2005 Thank you for all your replies - somehow we were expecting to be told not to touch it!!Out of interest - just exactly how binding is the acte de vente? Our Notaire has confirmed that a date for the end of May will be entered into the acte (which is due to be signed in February) stipulating that property will be available for us. Once this is signed can anything be altered and what happens if the vendors default regarding that date?I think we will be visiting the Notaire tomorrow to ask some more questions!Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejc Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Katieb - I wouldn't sign the acte without vacent posession no way no how - tell them to ether move the signing out to may or move out in Feb - or you'll pull out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 For what it is worth we had agreed verbally 1st September for the Acte when we signed the compris. Was very taken a back when told Acte would be signed on 10 August but we would not have vacant possesion till 1st September. I then checked with two French notaires, both of whom I had good reason to trust, who said this was not unusual in France. Notaire we used, chosen by our vendours, proposed 100 Euros a day and a 1,000 Euro deposit ( reduction of payment of sale proceeds) if we did get vacant possesion on the 1st.Everything went well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katieb Posted October 20, 2005 Author Share Posted October 20, 2005 another thought.......could someone please tell me what "vacant possession" is in french - thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derf Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 If it helps, here is what my Acte de Vente says about vacant possession and having full control of the property on the day of sale. PROPRIETE – JOUISSANCELes biens vendus sont libres de toute location, occupation et de tout contrat d’affichage.Le transfert de la propriété a lieu ce jour.L’entrée en jouissance a lieu également ce jour par la prise de possession réelle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnj Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 On the day of signing for the house I bought last year the French Estate agent informed me just prior to going into the notaires office to sign the act de vente, that the sellers new house wasn't finished and he would need to stay in my house for another week, I felt that at the time I had no choice but to agree to it, when I mentioned this arrangement to the notaire she was horrified and said this was totally unacceptable and told the seller he had to vacate immediately, because he had nowhere to go that night she allowed him with my permission to stay there for one night but made him sign a declaration that if he was there after 10 am the following morning I would be entitled to rent at around 100 euros a night.So I was left with the impression that this is not acceptable practice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katieb Posted October 23, 2005 Author Share Posted October 23, 2005 Just to put you all in the picture, we visited our Notaire on Friday to express our unease with the situation of paying and signing but not having vacant possession until 3 months later - she said she would speak to the vendor. She phoned us back within an hour saying it is no problem at all to pay, sign and have vacant possession at the same time if we would rather (in May) - makes you wonder doesn't it?Thanks again as always for your input.Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandt Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 we.ve bought and sold a couple of times in france and each time the final signing was such that once signed and paid for vacant possesionwas available. we did make sure that the money was with the notaire .we also made it clear that we expected to sign,pay and recieve the keys on the same day. it was the same with the sale as well. just stick to your guns with the notaire and agent if you have bought through one . would you buy a house in england under the same cicumstances? rememeber you are the one with the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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