Feeling Sorry For Myself

[Poppy]

Quick update - Last week we got offer from insurance 7500. We paid 11500 Euros 14 months ago, car was immaculate it came with 12 month warranty and everyone thought it was brand new. I took purchase invoice to insurers also printed off examples of cost (10,000) to replace car, same year, mileage etc. We refused the offer in the insurance agency and were sworn at, I take it the French just accept everything!! Anyway invoice plus examples were to be faxed to the expert.  Today we received letter from expert offering us 7500 or we can have the car repaired at a cost of 18964,28 respecting l'art. L3267-1. Job for the afternoon and most of the night probably is to decipher/find l'art. We are very tempted to tell them to repair it.

We also now have only 10 days from date of letter 3 October to reply or they will send cheque for 7500

Muust admit it has given us the best laugh we have had since the accident even if every bone aches.

[idun]

Get them to repair it. I would. If they cannot do better than that.

Still, have you checked the Argus price, you can buy it at the tabac, remember if kilometrage goes above the 'normal' figures,you have to take that off, it works out at something like 15K per an for a petrol and maybe 20K per an for diesel, it will be indicated in the Argus.

 

The Argus is 'the' paper that is used as the one to assess the cost of a vehicule.

[AnOther]

I don't believe for a second that they are offering the option of having it repaired at a cost to them of nearly €19,000, that's would clearly be nonsense. What they will be saying is that you can have it repaired if you prefer but their contribution would be limited to the €7500 they have offered and the rest will be down to you !

Unfortunately quoting current retail prices for similar models is unlikely to sway them nor will they be particularly interested in what you paid for it. Insurance companies base their valuations on trade price and what they are in effect saying is that for €7500 they could buy you a replacement car through the trade which would be equal to (but not necessarily identical to) the one you have had written off.

That sort of settlement could likely be the best outcome in the sense of losing least money as it puts you nearer to where you were before the accident which, at the end of the day, is what insurance is all about.

[Poppy]

Thanks idun, I think 7500 is the trade price quoted in Argus but the cost for us to walk into a garage and buy same car is10000. There is another thread going on at the minute re completing constat after accident and remaining calm. If I knew then what I know now then no way would I have remained calm, I would definitely have strangled the sleepy driver at the scene of accident

[Poppy]

Thanks AN. Yes the fact that they were repairing at a cost of 19000 was nearly as big a shock to us as the accident. I have emailed the expert with direct question will we have to pay anything if car is repaired.

As for putting us nearer to where we were before accident costs so far are -

Loss on car -              4000

Car Hire                      400

Excess on Travel Ins     150

Extra on Travel Ins per annum to cover accident injuries  800

Damaged computer      700

Inability to work on house, which needs a lot of work  ?????

Damage to health, Doc says it might take 6 months mentally to get over the accident  ???????

We will never get back to where we were before the accident

[Poppy]

Sorry looks as though my losses are just a nights out expenditure to others. I won't post again.

[Russethouse]

 I know you are feeling fed up Poppy, but thats a tad extreme - I don't think anyone lacks sympathy, but I suspect they are trying to be practical. Frankly in your place I'd be furious and looking at ways of appealing ? Surely the idea of paying insurance is that if an accident happens you are put back as closely as possibe to where you were before hand I dont think being 4000 euros out on the price of the car plus your other expenses comes anywhere near that.

I know it sometimes happens that a aged car in good condition is written off and a pittance given in recompense but with a car like yours where you have a recent receipt, it seems pretty rough.

Could you go after the other driver for your out of pocket expenses in any other way ?

[idun]

Poppy your losses are significant. Sadly a few years ago we had even bigger ones with our car insurance ducking and weaving and not paying out in France.

 

As my french friends say qu'est-ce que tu veux. There are often immovable objects in place and 'I' at least could not get past many of them, one being intransigent insurance companies. The fatalistic attitude of my friends, perhaps helps them through the 'bad' times.

[Poppy]

Thanks RH  We are obviously off first thing tomorrow to the insurance agent but the pressure of the letter dated 3/10 received 6/10 stating we have 10 days to reply or car will be dumped on on our drive without any compensation is unbelievable. It was not my intention to gain sympathy I was just trying to inform everyone of the implications of a severe accident even with all singing all dancing insurance and a superb car. Also it was not our fault, the other driver was very quick to admit he had gone to sleep (another story)

Going to have it out with insurance AXA tomorrow and if they are not going to claim from other driver we certainly will. Only problem is mental and physical health probs will never be compensated. I never agreed with the adverts on UK television re have you been injured in an accident etc until now 'if only'

[Russethouse]

Have your physical injuries and mental health problems been addressed at all by the insurance company ?

[Poppy]

Received forms from Insurance re compensation but they seem to concentrate on loss of earnings. As we are retired this doesn't affect pension income but the fact that we can't work on house isn't covered. Every week that we can't work on our house at our age is crucial. Have tried to explain the situation on the forms.

[Russethouse]

Have you got an estimate from a third party for doing the work you are unable to do ?

[Poppy]

Thanks RH hopefully that is the next step but as Idun says it is not the French culture. Don't know whether to slit my throat or bullet to head. Only joking I fully understand what idun is saying but with an English brain trying very hard to to come to terms with it;

[idun]

Poppy, sometimes I could have driven myself mad with the feeling of 'wrongness/injustice/frustration' and maybe even as bad as  'bitterness' which I really had to keep well under control.   My aim was a good night's sleep and relax and accept that which I could do nothing about and I didn't end up driving myself mad or become embittered.

 Dare say you aren't feeling very lucky now, but you really have had a narrow escape, having a bad accident like that, just look how much worse it could have been and wasn't.

Think about getting you and yours fit, look forward.

 

And if they will fix your car, I think if it were me,I'd tell them to.

[602]

Have just read this thread from the beginning and wonder why people get themselves into such a downward spiral.

We had a horrendous head on crash on Christmas Eve 2009 while on holiday in the UK in our AXA insured French car.

The first thing to note, other than a few scratches, we both walked away from the car. Regardless of what was to follow that was THE most important thing.

The upshot was that AXA were superb. The car was a complete write off and so the rest of its days were spent in a UK scrap yard.

AXA arranged for a taxi to Gatwick Airport, paid our flights home, a taxi at Bordeaux, a hire car for two weeks and paid out the Argus value of our car. I presume this was all claimed from the other party insurers as the accident was their fault.

Looking back, we never think about what could have happened, we think positive about what did happen. We both walked away unscathed.

Think positive, you are a long time dead.

[Chancer]

Poppy, even in the UK ambulance chasing culture they do not make allowances for those who dont actually work not being able to work, bad English on my part but to explain my French registered and insured car was shunted in the UK a few years back and I am partly ashamed to say that I made use of the current system there to turn a misfortune into a positive.

On the day of the court hearing the other side made their final offer which I accepted, a standard figure for pain and suffering, the repairs to my vehicle but not the VAT which they refused to pay, my limited medical expenses but they would not pay for the fact that I was not able to carry out the work on my property for one month nor would I have been able to convince the judge of the validity of that part of my claim so you are not being treated any differently in France.

Re the Argus valuation you should be checking to see if you can indeed buy the equivalent model second hand for the price they are offering, if not then fight them over that, I appreciate that you probably would only buy from a dealer but what they are doing is correct, to explain when you buy from a dealer you pay top price for the "supposed" benefits of a 12 month warranty, part exchange allowance etc, I say supposed because i doubt that in France you actually get any benefits but in any case you having owned the car for more than 12 months your car was effectively a second hand one at the time of the accident, i.e. had no accrued benefits.

If a second hand one can be found for €7500 then you should accept the offer, buy one and move on, if not then you have something tangible to argue with. Regarding them dumping the car on your doorstep that is in fact a good thing as otherwise you would be liable to continued storage charges.

Sorry to sound negative but it is time to stop feeling sorry for yourself, to either tackle the insurers over a real issue or to move on, unless a posting has been removed I really cant understand your comment about your losses being a night out to some forum members, I didnt read anything like that.

[Russethouse]

  While I agree with the sentiment behind the 'move on' posts I can also understand that Poppy's doctor has not been overly helpful, surely the crash has bought on depression (everyone is different and has different circumstances, don't forget they were going away because they'd had a bad year) and the insurers are not being overly generous considering Poppy and other half were not at fault - its no wonder Poppy and her OH feel depressed, angry, frustrated.

 I hope they have some success in getting better recompense, but I do think they should set themselves a limit on how far they are prepared to push before indeed, settling and getting on with the rest of their lives, assuming none of the injuries are permanent (and frankly I wouldn't be signing anything to say it was a 'full and final' settlement unless I was happy I was in exactly the same state of health I was before the crash).

 

[cooperlola]

Hmm.

Once it is established that the accident was not Poppy's fault, then I cannot see why she is not entitled to compensation for injuries both mental and physical - whether or not she and her o/h work is irrelevant except in terms of the amount of compensation  (loss of earnings, for instance, will not be taken into account, naturally) according to the booklet sent to me by the accident victims' group.  Then it will be up to her insurer's inspecteur corporel to fight her corner, but my experience is that they won't do much about this until blame is established.  Poppy, have you got a case number yet from the attending gendarme and has s/he been in touch with you since?  Do you know if the person who caused the accident has been charged?

As far as the value of the car is concerned, this is the responsibilty of your own insurers (mine paid for my car whereas the other party's insurance paid the compensation) as it has to be done quickly, before blame is established (I think the time limit is normally a couple of months at most before they are obliged to pay you.)   Thus it's your own policy which determines this and most of these agree only to pay the current market value according to the trade.  In France, as in the UK, this is a miserable proportion of what most of us feel our precious beasts are worth but that's the way it is.  Cars depreciate at an alarming rate.   However, I seem to remember that Mr Driver was able to get his compensation for the damage to his car upped based upon repairs and servicing carried out in the months leading up to his accident, and that his insurance did cough up (although,iirc, he's with MAAF, like me).  I got good compensation for my wreck, but I do pay through the nose for the equivalent of "like for like" insurance on a replacement vehicle - it is not a normal policy and costs me around 100€ a year on top of the normal "market value" policy.

Don't let your insurers allow the other party's insurers to get away with not paying you for your health issues, and use the accident victims' group to help you with this.  Equally, don't let the depression lead you into a self-perpetuating downward spiral - it's not worth it.  I know how you feel.  It's easy enough for people to say "you're lucky to be alive" but once you get over that feeling, you sure don't feel very lucky.  You've been hurt, and if it's somebody else's fault then they should pay - the law is on your side, just so long as the other party's guilt has been established, so finding out about this needs to be step one in your fight, imho.

[Russethouse]

Well said Coops....

[Poppy]

Thanks RH you read between the lines re other issues. Unfortunately at the minute I feel unwell physically and not being used to that it is affecting me mentally.Went back to doctor this week and whether or not it is because he knows I am usually very strong he just said 'all things mental and physical I am going through at the minute are normal for at least 1 month and adding in age factor might be 6 months.' No medication, xrays etc. Unfortunately no brandy on prescription.

Many thanks Coops for your practical support and more important motivation and also for the phrase 'you sure don't feel very lucky' Been through lots of challenges but def getting too old for this kind of thing. I haven't got a case number for the accident and no gendarmes have been in touch, they didn't take any of my details at scene of accident not even name. They took photos and details of driver who said he had gone to sleep. I was very suspicious that the first words he said to me when I rolled out the car 'was I went to sleep' According to Dutch driver behind us sleepy driver came from outside lane and hit us in inside lane!!!!  Friend who is a traffic policeman in UK can't believe that we weren't all tested for alcohol/drugs at scene. Sleepy driver was French, second car who hit us was Dutch and third car who hit us was German.  I speak good french but I felt the Gendarmes just wanted to run away.

We have just been to AXA Agency and signed the car away for 4000 less than we paid 14 months ago. It's like getting your money out of the bank and sitting at kitchen table cutting it up! Agency staff only interested in getting a signature and off their books. I did have a list of additional expenses which they said they would claim from other parties insurance so I will add the 4000 to the list.

Head is still all over the place at the minute, which is unusual for me. I didn't really start this thread for sympathy just to try and let others know what happens after an accident in France. Hopefully it won't apply to many.

[Poppy]

Chancer, storage charges would be the final straw.

I had nearly picked myself up dusted myself off etc but to get a letter stating - no negotiation, accept offer within (allowing for postage) 6 days or car will be dumped on our drive and we won't get anything at all was a bit of a setback. There is no way we can buy the eqivalent car for the money received but we had no choice but to accept.

[Rabbie]

Poppy, I do feel sorry for you but it is not only in France that the insurance company value of your car is rather less than your own. As the innocent victim of an accident in England I was very disappointed with the amount offered. However while 4000 may be excessive depreciation over 14 months you should expect there to be some depreciation over this time period.

 

[Poppy]

Thanks Rabbie I know insurance valuations are low all over the world and sorry to hear you have also been through it.

Depreciation would not have entered into our equation as it was the rest of life car. Never mind it is more the content of the recent letter that is annoying me - 6 days to accept or car dumped on drive etc.

It's a bit of a difficult time, I only seem to be able to either think, shop or cook for about an hour per day before mind and body close down. Certainly can't multi task.

[PaulT]

Sadly insurance companies are businesses and their first loyalty is to their shareholders and that means paying out the least they can so as to return big dividends.

I do not know whether they are available in France but in the UK for 'classic cars' there are agreed value policies whereby a value is agreed for a car and if it is written off then that is the amount paid out. I suppose the problem with extending that to 'modern cars' is that there would be all sorts of scams going on.

I would think that at some time in all our motoring careers we have done something that fortunately there has not been another car in the vicinity otherwise there would have been an accident so when someone crashes in to us their moment of carelessness unfortunately coincided with another car being there.

Easier said than done I know but if you are depressed do not dwell on the fact that you got 4k less than you paid as it will be counterproductive. If I may say I dare say that Coops would have preferred to have received 4k less and not have the injuries that she has.

Paul

[cooperlola]

You dare say correctly![:D]  It felt good to be alive for a few months but the relief wears off after a bit and reality sets in.  You will recover, Poppy, but it will take time so fight your corner by all means but don't waste your life and your mental health in the process.  Easier said than done, I know.[:)]