watch your speed

[Pickles]

If you have a subscription to the Garmin radar, er sorry, "dangerous zones" updates, then there is an update to the French camera database that conforms with the law. You can get a one-off download or a subscription.

[f1steveuk]

Is that on Garmin.FR or Garmin.UK?

[Bugsy]

Its Garmin. anywhere.

I've just downloaded it from 'My Garmin' and it removes the old POI and replaces it with a new one called Danger Zones'.

It still says Garmin Safety Cameras in the proximity alerts though which may cause some confusion if stopped.

Edit: If you go into settings - system - about. it show Extras & Safety Cameras. Click on that and it shows the upgrade dated 5/1/2012 which is the new one.

.

.

[Chancer]

I am finding this whole subject and discussion as amusing as the endless ones about gilet de sécurité.

I applaud you all for your godfearingness (bad English) and desire to conform but really no-one is going to kick your door down in the middle of the night or throw a stinger under your car the next time you drive.

How often do you lot get pulled over here in France and do you really think that they are going to go to all that trouble to catch you out?

[just john]

Are the new regulations surely being put in place purely to facilitate pulling cars over? and perhaps less for road safety than for a revenue stream; perhaps particularly when driving a vehicle on 'foreign' plates. I have experienced being pulled over, and the good cop, bad cop procedure was unnerving to say the least, not to mention the threatening way spot fines were extracted at risk of losing passport and driving licence, quite different to regulations in the UK.

[Théière]

[quote user="Chancer"]

I am finding this whole subject and discussion as amusing as the endless ones about gilet de sécurité.

I applaud you all for your godfearingness (bad English) and desire to conform but really no-one is going to kick your door down in the middle of the night or throw a stinger under your car the next time you drive.

How often do you lot get pulled over here in France and do you really think that they are going to go to all that trouble to catch you out?

[/quote]

Ahh yes Chancer but this is a "new toy" for the police to play with and the spirit of Le Chaise who knows what scalps they are after. I wouldn't expect to see GB stickers or any other nationality on police car doors but who knows at the police station away from prying eyes [6]

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="Chancer"]

How often do you lot get pulled over here in France and do you really think that they are going to go to all that trouble to catch you out?

[/quote]

a) Some insider knowledge from your Gendarmerie colleagues, or b) you haven't got a GPS so it doesn't really concern you, or c) you don't mind parting with €1500 ?

Without getting pulled by the Gendarmes, a UK registration plate and the visible magic box of tricks upon disembarkation, could be reason enough for the nice Douane man/woman to investigate the contents of ones GPS.

With the amount of traffic coming through the ports, no need for the Gendarmes to pull anyone - just leave it to the Douane Officers to bring in the coffers. 

[HoneySuckleDreams]

[quote user="Théière"]

Ahh yes Chancer but this is a "new toy" for the police to play with and the spirit of Le Chaise who knows what scalps they are after. I wouldn't expect to see GB stickers or any other nationality on police car doors but who knows at the police station away from prying eyes [6]

[/quote]

 

it's a revenue stream, pure and simple. I got pulled over many years ago for "jumping" a red light, 4 french cars followed after me, but I was the one who was pulled. A couple of girls passing by tried to argue my case, but as they said "he has the gun, you don't". So, I lost 900fr. If i had been driving a french car they wouldn't have been bothered.

I bet you in the next few months there will be a Daily Mail article based on those nasty french police pulling over english cars just to check their tom tom's

[pachapapa]

[quote user="HoneySuckleDreams"][quote user="Théière"]

Ahh yes Chancer but this is a "new toy" for the police to play with and the spirit of Le Chaise who knows what scalps they are after. I wouldn't expect to see GB stickers or any other nationality on police car doors but who knows at the police station away from prying eyes [6]

[/quote]

 

it's a revenue stream, pure and simple. I got pulled over many years ago for "jumping" a red light, 4 french cars followed after me, but I was the one who was pulled. A couple of girls passing by tried to argue my case, but as they said "he has the gun, you don't". So, I lost 900fr. If i had been driving a french car they wouldn't have been bothered.

I bet you in the next few months there will be a Daily Mail article based on those nasty french police pulling over english cars just to check their tom tom's

[/quote]

??????

http://nz.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100728015912AA5B4kA

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Salty Sam"][quote user="Chancer"]

How often do you lot get pulled over here in France and do you really think that they are going to go to all that trouble to catch you out?

[/quote]

a) Some insider knowledge from your Gendarmerie colleagues, or b) you haven't got a GPS so it doesn't really concern you, or c) you don't mind parting with €1500 ?

Without getting pulled by the Gendarmes, a UK registration plate and the visible magic box of tricks upon disembarkation, could be reason enough for the nice Douane man/woman to investigate the contents of ones GPS.

With the amount of traffic coming through the ports, no need for the Gendarmes to pull anyone - just leave it to the Douane Officers to bring in the coffers. 

[/quote]

d) intelligent enough to have a  GPS conforming with the law.[6]

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

d) intelligent enough to have a  GPS conforming with the law.[6][/quote]

Until such time as the actual law is available for public consultation, which no doubt you will offer chapter and verse reference, everyone is reliant upon the daily rags for information.

Some manufacturers have offered updates removing safety cameras, others are opting for danger zones, at least one has the option to turn the visual display and audible warning on or off. Another has provided a remedy of a clean install without the option of safety cameras - a total download of around 4GB!!!!!

Some console units fitted as standard will require complete reprogramming at a dealership, when and if an update becomes available

Some say that simply having the database on a GPS unit irrespective of whether it's switched on or off, will be illegal, yet no-one can provide an official source!

I, together with others have read on this forum the unvalidated comments regarding various models of this and that, which will be illegal, together with other fairy tales.  

From the number of responses this topic has generated, I think it's a fair assumption most people are intelligent enough to comply with the legal requirements, just as soon as they see a full and proper summary of the law.

If the manufacturers don't see it as clear cut, what chance has the punter?  

[Chancer]

No its either option E. - Life is too short.

Or option F. - I really coldnt give a 4xxxx

Lets have a sense of reality here guys, arent there enough things already that I am supposed to be anxious about every time I step out into the big wide world.

Oh no! I am not carrying my passport!

Oh no! the pocket knife I have carried for 10 years might be slightly too long!

Oh no! I only have a photocopy of my driving documents!

Oh no! I cant see the Nf mark on my gilet de securité!

Oh no! I have a passenger, should I have another gilet!

Oh no! Perhaps my gilet should not be in the boot but in the front perhaps draped over my seat!

Oh no! I have used half the bulbs in the spare kit!

Oh no! I have just used the breath tester and I am OK but dare I drive home now it no longer functions?

Oh no! I have 4 different tyres!

Oh no! My shatnav is in the glovebox; disconnected and with a flat battery but I havnt disabled the camera alerts or changed the icon!

Oh no! My steering wheel is on the right, they are bound to pick on me, I bet they can tell from my accent that I am English!

After being processed by the Gendarmes for (in their view) forcing them off their side of the road in a chicken run I no longer need to ask myself "what is the worst that can happen?"

The day that I start to worry about things like the above I hope that someone will have the compassion to do to me what the Indian chief did to Jack Nicholson in one flew over the cuckoos nest.

 

 

[f1steveuk]

In response to

d] Having the sense to have a Sat Nav that conforms with the law,    I did, someone moved the goalposts.

In response to "where has the information come from?"

I contacted my local and department main office and got two different answers, local police station says, "illegal to use, illegal

to have" Main office for the department says, "illegal to use, ok if

just switched off". Both said they had no legal right to check your unit

if stopped, but said customs did!!!!

So I am more than happy that I HAVE checked with official sources, and convinced they know as little as we do

[Cat]

So here's another question, Mr Cat doesn't have a GPS/fixed radar warning system, but I do, on my smartphone

If he is driving, and I am in the car with my phone switched on (with data and GPS enabled, but not necessarily using them) am I guilty of a crime?

Is it possession of the device, or the use of it that is forbidden?

If the phone were in my handbag or pocket, would I be less guilty than if the phone was in its holster (not the right word I know) clamped to the car window, but on the passenger side (for my own use, as a passenger)?

 

 

[Pickles]

[quote user="Salty Sam"]Until such time as the actual law is available for public consultation, which no doubt you will offer chapter and verse reference, everyone is reliant upon the daily rags for information.[/quote]

The official decree was published on 3rd Jan 2012:

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do;jsessionid=7AF3EC9C1D516BCC9AF88033EBD6F6D4.tpdjo03v_1?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000025083522&categorieLien=id

The decree inserts new and amended text into the code de la route:

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do;jsessionid=7AF3EC9C1D516BCC9AF88033EBD6F6D4.tpdjo03v_1?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006074228&dateTexte=29990101&categorieLien=cid

and concerns the banning of devices that tell you where equipment is located that is used to establish breaches of the code de la route (my rough translation).

It also mandates the wearing of reflective by the drivers of powered 2-wheeled vehicles, and makes it illegal to circumvent systems that use a breathalyser to prevent the starting of a car by an inebriated driver.

Most provisions are immediately effective: the reflective clothing provision is delayed until next year (IIRC)

 

[pachapapa]

[quote user="f1steveuk"]In response to

d] Having the sense to have a Sat Nav that conforms with the law,    I did, someone moved the goalposts.


In response to "where has the information come from?"

I contacted my local and department main office and got two different answers, local police station says, "illegal to use, illegal to have" Main office for the department says, "illegal to use, ok if just switched off". Both said they had no legal right to check your unit if stopped, but said customs did!!!!

So I am more than happy that I HAVE checked with official sources, and convinced they know as little as we do
[/quote]

The information was published in the first edition of the JO for last week and was immediately comprehensively covered in the french national media.

On the other hand I consider your local sources of information to be unreliable or at best misinformed.

Smarten up....get legal![:)]

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Cat"]

So here's another question, Mr Cat doesn't have a GPS/fixed radar warning system, but I do, on my smartphone

If he is driving, and I am in the car with my phone switched on (with data and GPS enabled, but not necessarily using them) am I guilty of a crime?

Is it possession of the device, or the use of it that is forbidden?

If the phone were in my handbag or pocket, would I be less guilty than if the phone was in its holster (not the right word I know) clamped to the car window, but on the passenger side (for my own use, as a passenger)?

 

 

[/quote]

my interpretation is that an offence occurs.

advise accordingly evasive measure...place smartphone in a plastic bag and swallow before fastening seat belt.....at end of journey use an emetic or allow nature to take it's course.[:)]

[f1steveuk]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

[quote user="f1steveuk"]In response to

d] Having the sense to have a Sat Nav that conforms with the law,    I did, someone moved the goalposts.

In response to "where has the information come from?"

I contacted my local and department main office and got two different answers, local police station says, "illegal to use, illegal to have" Main office for the department says, "illegal to use, ok if just switched off". Both said they had no legal right to check your unit if stopped, but said customs did!!!!

So I am more than happy that I HAVE checked with official sources, and convinced they know as little as we do

[/quote]

The information was published in the first edition of the JO for last week and was immediately comprehensively covered in the french national media.

On the other hand I consider your local sources of information to be unreliable or at best misinformed.

Smarten up....get legal![:)]

[/quote]

"Smarten up... get legal!",, like I said I was legal, I take it your happy for me to go out and buy a whole new Sat Nav (less than six months having forked out for the last one), because I'm not. The point I am making is, we were ALL legal, if someone changes the law, that is out of my control, and the least they could have done is be clear about it, e.g is it illegal to just switch it off or not? Some (not me) have spent a considerable amount of money on the data on their sat navs, it's not unreasonable to feel a bit miffed, especially if "getting legal" means a whole new sat nav (although I understand that is very few of us).

I'm not a "speeder" in fact, I tend to potter in France, but I would like the law to be more clear cut, but of course ambiguity means the boys in blue can do what they want to a degree.

My local source may well have been mis-informed, but while sitting at the desk of the head of police at my local police station, and watching the chief open the file and read documents sent by his superiors on the law and how to implement it, and seeing and hearing his confusion, would suggest that the whole thing is mis-informed, and mis-guided. When he was informed that his "view" differed from the department chief's office instructions, he tapped the paperwork quite hard at the official letterhead and said "THAT is what it says".

As for a revenue generator, yep, even for Garmin who want £20 to change the French database.

And I thought the British goverment were masters at creating legal grey areas........................

[Théière]

What about those built in to the dashboard, didn't TomTom tie up with Renault recently?

 

[Bugsy]

[quote user="f1steveuk"]As for a revenue generator, yep, even for Garmin who want £20 to change the French database. [/quote]

Not if you already have the current version of the POi software, its free.

Bear in mind though..............

The Garmin upgrade POi still shows the wording Safety Cameras the legal update can be shown by doing the following.

Hit Tools - System - About - Extras & Safety Cameras

You will see the following - "Cyclops France Data - France Jan-05-2012 Safety Camera Database" This is the new 'legal' upgrade.

[Théière]

I should print off that page Bugs, just in case so you can take legal action if required

[just john]

[quote user="Chancer"] No its either option E. - Life is too short. - Or option F. - I really couldnt give a 4xxxx [/quote]

I like your style Chance, if only I thought I could succeed with the man with the gun, to my shame I become more obsequious than Basil Fawlty with even more bowing, scraping and wringing of hands.[:$]

So for us compliant ones, is it possible to remove the Tom Tom info containing Speed camera locations in France?,
I had planned to change my GPS next year and really begrudge paying sums to control software which is a joy in the UK but the wrong side of the blanket en France.

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="Pickles"]
The official decree was published on 3rd Jan 2012:
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do;jsessionid=7AF3EC9C1D516BCC9AF88033EBD6F6D4.tpdjo03v_1?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000025083522&categorieLien=id
The decree inserts new and amended text into the code de la route:
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do;jsessionid=7AF3EC9C1D516BCC9AF88033EBD6F6D4.tpdjo03v_1?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006074228&dateTexte=29990101&categorieLien=cid
and concerns the banning of devices that tell you where equipment is located that is used to establish breaches of the code de la route (my rough translation).[/quote]

Thanks Pickles, greatly appreciated.

Translation below;

[quote]Article R413-15
Amended by Decree No. 2012-3 of January 3, 2012 - art. 22

 I. - The possession or carrying a machine, device or product of nature or presented as being capable of detecting the presence or disrupt the operation of apparatus, instruments or systems for the recognition of violations of the law or regulation road traffic or allow to avoid the recognition of these offenses is punishable by a fine for contraventions of the fifth class.

 Having to use a machine, device or product of the same nature is the same penalties.

 II. - This device, this device or product is entered. When the machine, device or product is placed, adapted or applied to a vehicle, this vehicle can also be entered.

 III. - Any person guilty of an offense under this section is liable also the following additional penalties:

 1 ° The additional penalty of suspension for a period of three years at most, driver's license, the suspension may be limited to driving outside professional activity;

 2 ° confiscation of the vehicle when the device was used or intended to commit the offense is placed, adapted or applied to a vehicle.

 Any conviction automatically leads to the confiscation of the device that was used or intended to commit the offense.

 IV. - This ticket gives rise automatically to the reduction of six points in the driver's license.

V. - The provisions of this Article shall also apply to products or devices to warn or inform the location of equipment, instruments or systems used for finding violations of the law or regulation of traffic.[/quote]

 "The possession or carrying a machine, device or product of nature or presented as being capable of detecting the presence or disrupt the operation of apparatus, instruments or systems for the recognition of violations of the law or regulation road traffic or allow to avoid the recognition of these offenses is punishable by a fine for contraventions of the fifth class."

Well, there we are! A tad ambiguous, confusing and open to misinterpretation perhaps?

[Théière]

[quote user="just john "]

So for us compliant ones, is it possible to remove the Tom Tom info containing Speed camera locations in France?,
[/quote]

No not just for France at the moment, wait for a TomTom update for that but you can as previously described by Sam and myself disable the whole safety camera database and just re enable it when you get back to the sensible countries.

I removed the TomTom database from my unit several years ago (deleted the file stored in Western Europe map file) as I have a 3rd party database installed. That I can already edit and call the cameras anything I want i.e. safety zone and set it to sound at any distance before the camera thus I conform already (well I will when I actually re set it to do that,) the only bug bear is having to reset it when i return to the UK. I may do 2 backups to make that quicker i.e. French vers and UK vers.

[Théière]

[quote user="Salty Sam"]

Well, there we are! A tad ambiguous, confusing and open to misinterpretation perhaps?

[/quote]

I am sure ambiguity is used by the legal profession to ensure their income stream whilst arguing test cases and case precedent for the next 10 years.