Towing A Car In France With An 'A' Frame

[tasng4]

Does anyone know the legal situation with using an 'A' Frame in France? I have heard so many conflicting stories, some people seem to use them with impunity while others tell horror stories about the Gendarmes refusing to allow them to continue.

I ought to say that the car(s) I will be towing will be less than 750Kg (MG Midget, Hillman Imp, Mini)so there ought not to be weight issues, I will use a trailer board, and the car(s) will be MOT'd or CT'd. The main reason for towing is to save on petrol and the comfort of a modern car.

If this is completely legal etc. can anyone recommend a manufacturer?

[Pickles]

We have discussed this at length in the past - if you try the Google search facility it will probably dig it up.

One of the UK manufacturers of these devices maintains that towing a car using an A frame is legal (for which Mandy Rice Davies has a suitable riposte). My understanding of the original intent of these devices (having owned a wheeled drawbar suspended tow device) was that they were only homologated for the recovery of a broken-down vehicle.

However (bearing in mind that my position on many of these issues has been succinctly summarised by others as "doom-merchant"), I have not come across any "horror stories" of people being prevented from continuing by the gendarmes and still see these being used with impunity by motor-caravan owners. Personally, I would advise getting a proper lightweight car transporter trailer (for the type of car that you mention, there is one by Brian James which would do the job very well).

[AnOther]

I think the basic problem probably boils down to the fact that loaded above 500kg an A frame becomes liable to registration - which is impossible as you will never get a C of C - and above 750kg it requires a braking system. There is also the question of insurance which your insurer will not issue for it without sight of a carte grise.

Non French users may get away with it as the gendarmes cannot know the rules for every other country but as far as using one in France with a French registered vehicle is concerned well of course nothing is wrong or illegal until something happens.

Does anyone know of a dealer selling them in France and claiming them to be legal.even for local recovery work ?

[dave21478]

In UK, they are only legal to tow a broken down car to a place of safety. They would be legal to use as you please if the towed car is under 750kgs - However, this is the max gross vehicle weight as stated on the chassis plate rather than the actual weight of the car as it is. I think that even minis and the like are plated at over 750kgs.

In France, I dont know the actual legal situation, but nobody sells them and nobody has even heard of one or seen one in use. I have an ex RAC one with over-run braking capability and have used it plenty of times in France to the absolute shock and wonder of anybody who has seen it. People have come up to me and asked detailed questions about how it works and where they could get one. One chap reckoned he had seen the French army using them years back.

I was stopped once by the cops who didnt like the look of it and told me to go straight home as they thought it was not legal (I was literally about 1/4 of a mile from home anyway so no hardship!) on the other hand I have been seen by other cops with it in use and their reactions have ranged from indifference to mild curiosity but never stopped me.

[Bugsy]

We used one for a couple of winter trips to Spain towing a Fiat Cicento behind our Winnebago.

They work and do operate the towed vehicles brakes but are NO substitute for a proper trailer and you CANNOT reverse them. They drag the vehicle behind rather than tow it IMHO, of course.

A firm in Poole in Dorset supply and fit them.

We bought a lightweight trailer in the end and it felt much safer with no wear and tear on the car towed, of course.

Edit: We never got pulled over when using the 'A' frame but the situation may now be different, of course.

[billy10]

yes, the person i used to have my a frame fitted is a company called JATTEL and he is an ex formula one guy who lives here in France , he does the ordering and he contracts out the fitting to a local garage , i must say although a bit expensive ( welcome to France ) he provides a top class service ,you can find his website by just putting in Jattel in the search engine,he claims it is quite legal and supplies a german TUV test certificate and a copy of a document which was issued by the Spanish ministry of the interior under secretary overturning a Spanish fine therefore setting a precident incidentally I tow all over France and winter in southern Spain towing a fiat panda and have not been stopped or questioned .

[Benjamin]

On a trip in August we saw a French plated camping car towing one of those new Renault micro-cars.

[NickP]

[quote user="dave21478"]In UK, they are only legal to tow a broken down car to a place of safety.
[/quote]

 

Maybe then  Dave you can explain to me why; when I used A frames for years to tow vehicles that were being Filmed, ( cameras were fitted to the towing vehicle and the idea was that the actors could get on with their acting/dialogue and not worry about the driving) I never got arrested? By the way when in London we always did this operation with  police escorts; and never once was it suggested by plod that I was breaking the law. Although I must add the assistance of the technology didn't improve all actors performances.[:D][:D]

[Pickles]

[quote user="billy10"]yes, the person i used to have my a frame fitted is a company called JATTEL and he is an ex formula one guy who lives here in France , he does the ordering and he contracts out the fitting to a local garage , i must say although a bit expensive ( welcome to France ) he provides a top class service ,you can find his website by just putting in Jattel in the search engine,he claims it is quite legal and supplies a german TUV test certificate and a copy of a document which was issued by the Spanish ministry of the interior under secretary overturning a Spanish fine therefore setting a precident incidentally I tow all over France and winter in southern Spain towing a fiat panda and have not been stopped or questioned .[/quote]

Jattel's website (which used to be www.jattel.com) seems to have disappeared.

However, I thought I'd try and chase down some of the "legalities". I have seen it reported that Jattel and others claimed a TuV homologation for the A-frame. My understanding from German websites is that this homologation is for recovery purposes only, and in Germany, from what I have seen written on the forums of German motor-home owners, the owners of such vehicles are under the distinct impression that these devices are not permitted for German-registered vehicles unless recovering broken-down vehicles. They are envious of the foreigners who are able to use such devices. On various websites, much store has been put on Directive 94/20/CE as a means of establishing the legality of A-frames - eg in France and Spain, and on the cases that apparently have occurred in Spain where the drivers of foreign-registered vehicles towing using A-frames have been fined and then had their fines rescinded on appeal. Directive 94/20/CE basically requires towing combinations that are legal in the state of registration to be accepted in other states (paraphrasing GROSSLY here!).

The basic problem is that the only European homologation that seems to exist for these devices is as a recovery device.

I now go back to my previous comment that people - like NickP - have been using these for quite some time with more-or-less impunity (referring to the Spanish cases). It IS still a "grey" area legally, but it would appear that the Police/Gendarmes/Guardia Civile/Polizia have got rather bigger fish to fry (or cats to whip?) and don't care enough/don't see it as being enough of a danger or problem to actually intervene. It appears that the UK law has yet to be defined in this area and I suspect that no-one wants a test case, unless a couple of these setups come unhitched and are seen to be cause of accidents.

However, I still think that you are better off with a light trailer!

[AnOther]

[quote user="Pickles"]I suspect that no-one wants a test case, unless a couple of these setups come unhitched and are seen to be cause of accidents.

[/quote]I think that probably sums it up.

Despite the number of people who seem have researched the topic, myself included, AFAIK no one has yet come up with come up with anything substantive legitimising them.

Simply not getting stopped or questioned certainly does not constitute that and frankly is completely irrelevant. By extension that's the same as saying that if you drive without insurance or a licence you don't commit those offences until you get stopped !

I wonder how many using them have bothered consulting their insurance companies about it, a pretty essential move I would say and something I most certainly would do if I were contemplating it. Ultimately insurance is what really matters everything else can be dealt with by way of a simple fine or at worst a prohibition.

[retread]

My feeling is that in France, Germany and Spain the use of an A frame is illegal for anything other than recovery, the subject is continually cropping up on the Fora dedicated to motor homes both in the UK and in France. I further understand that the TUV certification offered as 'proof' only applies to the tow hitch supplied by Alko and not to the A Frame as such.The French Law is stated here:-Extract from Le monde du Camping-car

  (if that's allowed?)

[andyh4]

I can confirm that TÜV certification will apply to an item or component and not to a concept.