Work hard to find

[Jo53]

I spoke to my neighbour yesterday - an articulate, well-presented French woman in her 40s. She is an optician by profession but can only find 2 days a week of work within a 30 km radius, one day a week at two opticians.

She is looking for something, anything, to supplement her income. She will even consider cleaning work. But she has had ZERO luck. Just a couple of weeks delivering telephone directories. I think it's hard for people coming from Britain to understand this. Over there you can always get something - bar work, office cleaning, shelf stacking, whatever. In rural France it doesn't work like that. And she is French - how much harder would it be for someone whose French is limited.

Jo

[Teamedup]

I know Joe53, isn't it hard and I feel so desparately sorry that so many people are struggling as they are. It always makes me realise how very very lucky I am and be thankful for it.

[Val_2]

I'm glad you posted this because so many people coming to live in France think work will just fall into their laps,how little they really know what real life is like here. Unfortunately your story illustrates what is becoming a national problem especially in the rural areas with so many people applying for the same mundane jobs and these are locals,not foreigners with one or two words in french. Life seems to be a struggle now for so many people here,not just the incomers but farmers,young people and women trying to supplement the family income against the rising tide of increased bills that never stop arriving. I can honestly see both my children eventually looking for work much further afield,even in another country if they gain their degrees as there seems to be less and less investment by large companies outside the Isle de France.

[Tourangelle]

In the city finding a job, if you are after just any job is not a problem. It is essentially a rural problem, which is why people leave rural areas and have been doing so for many years. I feel sorry for these people, but it does annoy me when French people then go on to say that the British, Germans and so on are taking the housing in rural areas and driving up prices, when in fact whole villages have been deserted.

[letrangere]

Tourangelle's right, there is work to be found in the cities but it can be pretty hard, if not impossible, living on the minimum wage in many of the grandes villes.  And if my experience in Paris is anything to go by, even here, jobs are not exactly lined up ready and waiting for us.  Teaching is the best bet but you do need to have both transferrable qualifications and previous experience.  Friends of mine who tried part-time bar work, hotels, restos all spoke of the "closed shop" attitude of employers and only found jobs if they had an inside contact who'd speak up for them.  Some specialist boutiques took Brits (or more popularly Japanese) where they needed specialist language speakers but the pay was pretty awful.  Tourism was more enjoyable but what you earned was merely pocket money, there's no way you could have survived on the salary.  I think before people move to France for employment opportunities they need to take a look at the unemployment figures.  10% country average, double that in many rural parts and amongst the under 30s, especially graduates.  So what chance is there for us?  M

[gingra]

I think that for anyone who is willing yet unable (for whatever reason) to find work it can be soul destroying. I have lived and worked in over 3 different countries for both short and long periods of time and I have met people in all places who feel the same. Bills, fees and payments are constant yet job security is no longer a given despite qualification / experience and so on.

Even when moving within a country, there is no guarantee. I moved from a city to rural Britain and had to spend a large part of my first year unemployed - although not unemployable. I applied for a range of positions, but nothing so I went back to training / working.

People make assumptions about what is to blame and who is to blame trying to justify or make sense of the situation.

In my limited experience it is relative to place, time, culture etc and if you need work and have none - then it is really hard.

Do people really believe that work will fall in their laps? Who does this actually happen to???!!!

[Russethouse]

Just out of interest -

This was in the paper today (UK) and comes from a report by the government agency UK Trade & Investment.

This is the number of jobs created by foreign investment in 2004 - 2005;

UK 39,592

Germany 5,188

Ireland 1,681

France 1,424

Netherlands 1,065

Belgium 24

[Tourangelle]

That is interesting, Gay. Although Britain seems to get a lot they don't always stay! How about Sony in Wales? This year France should get more as they are building this new reactor near Marseille rather than in Japan, I don't know whether this has been on British news, but they are very pleased here!

[Russethouse]

Here is a link (I'm afraid you will have to copy & paste - and its long !)

http://www.newsroom.uktradeinvest.gov.uk/news/release.asp?PRID=63BA7D51%2D71A8%2D4E6C%2D8F58%2D64300C93AE08

I had a quick look at comments about this and basically the conclusion seems to be that staying out of the Euro zone has not been the forecasted disaster for Britain. It is also thought that Tony Blair has abandoned his ambition to get Britain into the Euro zone during his period of office.

Reasons given for this 'boom' are the transparency of doing business and value for money, with the main competition coming from China, Korea etc.

'Foreign firms do not want to invest in a time warp economy shackled by red tape, over generous welfare provision and a union dominated labour market'

Ring any bells ?

[Deby]

Just back from Blighty and I was amazed how the local Tesco has now become two-tier (they added a mezzanine!). I could not believe the amount of staff in the store, almost every aisle (+ there were lots of them) had a member of staff there doing something and being 'available'. Out of curiosity I looked on the Tesco Job noticeboard and counted  22 jobs sitting there waiting to be filled and the wage was from 7 - 14 quid an hour! The cashier also asked if I needed some help with packing my bags.

When living in Grenoble, a few people I knew, not degree level, but certainly well-educated with languages thrown in for good measure took 2+ years to find a job. Another person with a degree and tons of sales and business experience could only find a 35hr week job driving around the region (not dept) for  little more than the SMIC and petrol was not included!

Also I happen to know there is alot of investment going into Grenoble at the moment, scientists, engineers, physicists(sp!) etc and guess where the majority are coming from - overseas! Everyone French is clammering to learn English as this is a job requirement!

As for rural life, employers find it so expensive to employ people, the black economy is rife due to the chicken and egg policies of the government.

I wonder what the future holds, but  when I was in England lots of people could not understand why we would return surely everything in France was so much better than England they would say. My response yes some things are some things are not, but the weather is certainly nicer.

Deby

[letrangere]

I think that for anyone who is willing yet unable (for whatever reason) to find work it can be soul destroying.

Oh, absolutely but it can feel so much worse when you're trying to find a job in a foreign country.  I'd never been out of work for five minutes in London, I had just cruised from one good position to another.  But arriving in France even with good French, bits of paper to prove it and transferrable skills and qualifications, it took me months of humiliating interviews and rejections before a friend of a friend ultimately put in a useful word on my behalf.  And the irony was, I wasn't driven to work for financial reasons, I merely wanted to speak French all day and get some Paris work experience on my CV. 

I can't begin to imagine how stressful it must be for people who leave their jobs in the UK, sell up and move to rural France in search of employment, which they simply must secure in order to eat, cloth the children and pay bills.  Perhaps that's why I'm often guilty of harping on about it so much.

Had to smile when I read the line quoted by Gay saying Britain is a popular country for foreign companies to invest in due to transparency in business dealings, how true.  It's a shame I can't persuade my OH to post on his experience of working for a French multinational.  Many of their "standard practices" were pretty far removed from what he'd been previously accustomed to in Britain, the US and even parts of the Middle East...

M

[Bones]

Nice to see others in the same boat, though not really a nice boat.

My partner's French and had a good job with Esso in Manchester prior to moving back here last August.

We came with high hopes but here we are a year later on the RMI and living like dogs. We can't even get work on the vines for god's sake!

The social workers and CAF have been utter b**tards! They even advised us to go for an interest free loan to buy the basics only to knock us back for being TOO poor to meet their minimum repayment! This was only after losing the papers for a few weeks I might add. The social workers were also ready to leave us homeless (with a kid) on new years eve - luckily family bailed us out again. We've been sleeping on the floor with the lad on an inflatable mattress, but now we have a sofabed and a single bed for the lad from emmaus. Whoop de doo...

I'd be back home now if it wasn't for our son being settled in school. We'll certainly be moving out of the Aude ASAP.

ESSO in Manchester has since closed down and relocated to eastern europe by the way. England's salad days are built on legs of clay and after a few years eastern europe will give way to China etc etc.

Let's hope France move on and we can open up some decent businesses without fear of drowning in red tape and taxes!

 

[Teamedup]

Bones, children do adapt and I'm sure that your child would easily adapt and would feel the difference where ever you chose your household to be. Especially  if that worry of no money coming in is gone. Kids usually know when there is something up.

 The great french social system that is often spoken about and always neglects to mention those who don't qualify or fit into it. And there are a lot of people very sadly in this catagory.

 

Best of luck to you.

[SaligoBay]

Bones, what age is your son?   If he's still primary age, AND one of you can get a decent job in the UK, maybe that's what you should do?    Keep France as a long-term goal for when you have the means again?

It's a pity we never hear from those thousands of Brits who go back to Britain.  I suspect that we'd hear stories like yours too often. 

I think we bring our Protestant Work Ethic with us - if you work hard you'll reap the benefits - but I guess you have to experience France to know that it's not necessarily true. 

I got my crummy little minimum-wage job through a French friend.  If it wasn't for her telling the Boss loudly and at length how wonderful I was he'd have chucked me out of his office in 20 seconds for time-wasting with a totally irrelevant CV.

Better go to work, I start at 8am. 

[Bones]

Yeah: Get to work!! Be careful what you wish for?

I don't know about protestant work ethic - I think I bring more of a catholic 'why can't I win the lottery' ethic.

The irony is that we thought our preference to be working more with our hands than being stuck in the city rat race would ease the culture shock. But when the vines and Leclerc etc knock you back...

The other problem is that the chances of picking up a village house for 5k are long gone, we have English friends over here who had it worse than us - they got it together after a few years and are now about to sell on their second homes at a 70k profit.

My partner's divorce hadn't been finalised at the time we were leaving, that was stressful enough (you know the story..).  The house had just sold for a decent profit (or so we had thought!) during the 'boom' and with my partner being French you can understand our misplaced optimism: "I'll work in a bar if I have to - I did it in the UK when I moved there...". Yeah right!!

As far as moving back goes - well, we moved over a tad early to get the lad in school 'on time' (right age/first day at new school) and have worked hard keeping him in his school since moving out of the village after xmas (not by choice). As the canteen wouldn't take him we had to make eight journies per school day. Ties you up a bit!

 That's all over now and frees me up to get some manual work if poss. Off to the chamber of commerce for business intro' today. The missus is going for the teaching concorde (spelling?) next year and still looking for a break. So we'll see. We're not Brits going home - the other half is French and had spent ten long years in a foreign country, had a marriage break up and neither of us wanted to see the boy being raised in the UK (we lived in inner city manchester). Much as I moan, the stress of having your car broken into every flipping day being replaced by seeing the boy splashing around in his mate's swimming pool and mastering French is wonderful.

Things will change if we work hard enough and avoid descending into a psychotic depression!

[rik.lane]

Good luck to you keep at it and Im sure you will win

[SaligoBay]

We're not Brits going home

I only meant there's nothing wrong with going back to Britain, it's only the same as a French person going back to France!

I suppose I misunderstood your first post - living like dogs sounds like a Bad Thing, and humans generally want to get out of Bad Things, which is why I thought going back to Britain and getting a quick buck and coming back to France better prepared seemed quite reasonable.

You seemed to be paying quite a high price for your lad to have a splash in a pool and learn French, especially considering he has a French papa in the house with him!

But things are clear now - you obviously do have resources of some sort (assuming your car doesn't run on air and you don't live on grass, and you can envisage a reasonably long future without an income) - so you can afford to wait.

So good luck, no offence intended.  Ever!    

 

 

[Bones]

Oh god - none taken!

My point about the brits going home thing: I meant that with my partner (not me) being French - things are a little different for us; if we were all English I think we'd be back in blighty by now.

 But as we have a full Frenchy and a half Frenchy in the house - and if we get it together we'll be living in a far better culture, well....head down time!

We do have some income; as mentioned we're 'RMIstes', so that works out at about 600 euro's a month. The problem is we're repaying the rental deposit (+ bills of course) and with it being the first year we've been trying to get all the normal stuff from scratch (beds, furniture, car registered in France - the list never ends). So not much left then! Boyo is at the local school in september so less fuel bills now and more time to search for work on the black for me. 

Good luck to everyone trying to find jobs on this forum - as my mother says:

Something will turn up - even if it's on the end of your nose..

Whatever that means.

[Ty Korrigan]

Hello, Prehaps its transferable skills... a stockbroker in rural france or a pigbreeder in battersea...

Although I realise that what is one thing in the U.K is nothing here... even gardening is divided into 'Paysagists' and 'Espace Vert' I walked into the tax office in Chichester and was in business. Here, a 5 day course and endless paper later and I am still unofficial after 3months! The french system is NUMB! but I am here and must take my place in society. 

 

[Bones]

Well as for skills, the missus is French and has a good CV and experience in Logistics, also she's bilingual.

There are loads of logistics posts (we apply anywhere and everywhere) but she's not even got an interview. The problem is unemployment levels; we've contacted companies and asked "why no interview?" and the answers are: "We promoted internaly" or "we know you were qualified but we decided to take the neurosurgeon for the cleaners post".

We've seen adverts for very lowly paid logistic planners asking for FOUR languages!

Most sickening was the new food hall at Intermarche: (according to a friend) this guy waltzes into the open day like Hitler and tells everyone they must pay 8 euros a day out of their wages to eat lunch there!! No choice, if you don't like it leave now - which of course nobody could afford to do. Even Macdonalds give you a chicken sandwich for lunch...

And yes we've been down (still going down) the business route and I agree, it is rather numb. We wanted to try importing car parts: you can't do it as a micro and the (great sounding) business co-operative doesn't deal with that sort of thing anymore. It's all rather boring.