audiop Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Is it legal to run a business in France and register the same business in the UK ? Are there any advantages in so doing ?Direction to any useful web sites would be appreciated. Thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 This might help http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/585548/ShowPost.aspx but if not try searching under 'registered in the Uk' there are several results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert the InfoGipsy Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 A bit more info would also be welcome!What sort of business? - manufacturing, retail ...How much work/trade in each country?Where is the work actually carried out?Where are domiciled?What kind of busines organisation - SARL (ltd), sole trader, partnership... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 [quote user="audiop"]Is it legal to run a business in France and register the same business in the UK ? Are there any advantages in so doing ?Direction to any useful web sites would be appreciated.Thx[/quote]Of course it is! But, I can't see why, unless you are trading in both places, you would want to - even then it would only increase your costs. Remember that, you can't avoid French charges by working via an overseas business - this subject has been done to death on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiop Posted December 17, 2006 Author Share Posted December 17, 2006 Perhaps you could direct me to the relevant posts ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 I think Russethouse already has (above).[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiop Posted December 17, 2006 Author Share Posted December 17, 2006 OK but this is different, the business will be run in France and we will be resident in France, I'm sure the correct thing to do is to register in France, but I am interested to know why so many UK businesses run in France are registered in the UK ?Also would like some info on micro enterprise/SARL etc, surely there is a website somewhere which explains all of this I have searched but have not found much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 If you live and work in France then even if you have a business that is registered overseas, you still need to open a french branch of that business to pay the charges due to the french government. These are high, so what is the point in paying in two places.If people only have brit registered businesses and have no french branch, then surely they are not working legally in France? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/824694/ShowPost.aspxThat is a current discussion - if you use the search function on this site there is a great deal of discussion about micros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeb Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 This may be a bit out of date but I hope it will help with business set up (it's in English): http://www.apce.com/index.php?rubrique_id=300000112&type_page=IL&pays=1 AFAIK Many of the folks advertising as builders/diggerdrivers/gardeners/property agents with no SIRET number but with a UK registration number, in English mags and newspapers in France are pulling a fast one! How can you be living and registered in the UK but available for fosse installation or renovating someone's property at any time in the Dordogne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Teamed up/Zeb what is the best way to convey this to people? A friend of mine near here (his wife works for a French company) runs a small IT company from his home, and also a "part time" chambre d'hote business. He approached me the other day to recommend an accountant as he "needs to start paying tax on the b&b business". I asked him how he pays his taxes on the IT business. "Oh, it's a UK company", he said. "I pay my taxes over there, that's not the problem". It's been impossible to convey the fact to him that he is resident here and owes money to the French tax man, which I was sure he does. What you say convinces me even more but how do I get the point over? I'm tempted to let him stew but he's a mate and I don't really want to see him caught up with and ending up paying a huge fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiop Posted December 17, 2006 Author Share Posted December 17, 2006 This what I am trying to get at, many brit owned French businesses are registered in the UK but they are offering their services only in France, now there must be a reason for doing this, is it because of the high level of taxes which small businesses have to pay in france ? If all your clients come from the UK as clients whilst on holiday in France and pay into your UK bank account, would that be a good reason for registering in the UK ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 It seems to me that it is where you live that matters. Your taxes and social charges go to pay the services which you enjoy (not your clients) - the roads you use, education for your children, the police force which protects you, your health care, pensions etc. That has always seemed to me to be the basis upon which it is decided where you are deemed to be taxed. I have no doubt that there are ways of attempting to be taxed where it is cheaper - hence the "offshore" company. But is it legal? Perhaps - is that the definition of the difference between Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion, or are these companies indulging in the latter rather than the former? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 We have a member here who used the expression 'if your bums in France, you pay in France' pretty accurate IMHO...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 It's where the work is actually carried out that counts. If you live in France but commute to England to work, you pay tax and NI in Britain. If you live in France and carry out your work in France, even if it is for English clients and paid in sterling, you pay tax and social security charges in France. There are a few exceptions - civil servants posted overseas, seafarers etc, and it is also possible for anybody to work in another EU country temporarily (in practice up to two years) while paying tax and social security in their home country. Otherwise anybody working in France without paying in France is working illegally. And thanks to the very high French social security costs and crippling bureaucracy there are a lot who are working illegally - not only British. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 So if you are in your living room in France, working on your computer servicing UK clients, you pay tax in France, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 No doubt someone will post exceptions but if you are sat in France you could be working for anyone anywhere, you are carrying out your work in France.If you do not get in the system how would you fare for health care ?Surely the time for most people to be asking these questions is BEFORE they move ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Which is what our sensible op is doing R/H. I don't think the bloke I'm talking about really thinks about it. The healthcare thing's a point though, maybe he does it through his wife who is employed over here by a French company. All a bit rum, I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 [quote user="cooperlola"]So if you are in your living room in France, working on your computer servicing UK clients, you pay tax in France, no?[/quote]Absolutely correct (though many don't seem to pay in France), more to the point you must also pay social security in France, which is a far more substantial payment, and is why people in this situation are probably so reluctant to get into the French tax system, as they are legally obliged to do.The fact that the chap's wife pays into the system through her employment in France makes no difference. If he was not working, he would be covered for healthcare etc through her contributions, but as he is working he should, legally, be paying his whack. You never know, he might get a visit from URSSAF one day, who are rather interested in how some people fund their lifestyles.Mrs Will is employed in France, but that doesn't stop me paying my 46% of what I get in sterling from UK clients (plus French tax) when I am working in France. Others should be doing the same - there is no legal way out for nost of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Yes, Will, I'm afraid I got a bit hot under the collar with my mate about this too. How come I spent hours sifting through bits of paper, paying visits to CPAM and the tax office, phoning their equivelants in the UK, hiring accountants and scouring web sites, just to make sure I'm doing all the right things and people just swan along and don't pay their dues? As I say, I like the guy but this cavalier attitude kind of makes me sneakily want him to get caught - I know that is mean of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 This what I am trying to get at, many brit owned French businesses are registered in the UK but they are offering their services only in France, now there must be a reason for doing this, is it because of the high level of taxes which small businesses have to pay in france ? If all your clients come from the UK as clients whilst on holiday in France and pay into your UK bank account, would that be a good reason for registering in the UK ? audiop, the reason for doing this is that folks say that they want to live in France blah blah blah because France is blah blah blah and yet they want to live in France like colonialists doing what 'they' want. At the end of the day, there are rules and laws in France and not just cheap wine and sunshine and anyone wanting to be a resident should adhere to the rules and laws of France. As it happens, small businesses get hammered, it is the 'french way'; Like the inheritance laws are the 'french way'. I don't like a lot of this stuff, but if the french want these things changing shouldn't they be complaining to their government.Cooperlola, no idea as to how you explain to your friend about him not being properly registered. If he isn't that much of a friend just tell him that next time you are in the URSSAF that you will discuss it with them. If he gets uppity, then tell him, why should you pay and he doesn't. OR you could print this out and show him. As far as I am concerned he is fiddling the french government out of their dues and deserves being controlled. Incidentally, a friend of mine says that when the URSSAF get their teeth into something louche they are like rot weillers and show no mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo-Frenchman Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I couldn't agree more. I pay 250EUR per month to URSSAF + 2x 1,800EUR in November and December so if anyone out there is bucking the system than watch out because they WILL find you and then God have mercy upon your wallet!Those of you reading the popular press will have seen that the French singing icon M. Halliday has moved his affairs to Switzerland due to the cost of living in France. Let's face it, if he can't afford to live here then who are we kidding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keni Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I am finding this all a bit puzzling. We hope to retire over to France in the next few years. My husband will receive a small pension of around 5K a year, and we will both be in our fifties. We will just be living on the pension and a bit of interest from when we sell the British home. Will we still be expected to pay around 250e's a month each for social - that's about what we will be living on! We cannot find out from anyone what our dues will be.Keni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 If you are not working you will pay less. In very rough figures you pay 8% of your total income over about 7000€ to the health system, plus an additional charge of 11% on the interest you will receive. Tax is on top of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 [quote user="Keni"] I am finding this all a bit puzzling. We hope to retire over to France in the next few years. My husband will receive a small pension of around 5K a year, and we will both be in our fifties. We will just be living on the pension and a bit of interest from when we sell the British home. Will we still be expected to pay around 250e's a month each for social - that's about what we will be living on! We cannot find out from anyone what our dues will be.Keni[/quote]Keni, Please accept this in the spirit that it's intended. Others may dispute my figuresI hate to 'burst your bubble', but I don't believe that you can live in france for £5000 and a bit of interest from your capital. It's just not possible. We did a calculation recently on our outgoings, based on the last five years and adding for inflation etc, it was a bit of a surprise to find that we currently need about £11,000 a year 16.000€'s. We do have a large house, but there is just two of us, plus a few animals, we have no mortgage, no debts and certainly do not live the high-life.Sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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