Help Required PLEASE READ

[Chief]

Hi

 

Hoping you all might be able to help.  I am undertaking a project planning course (Microsoft Projects), and am putting together a project as part of my course.  I thought that as I was seeking to eventually move to France in the future, I could perhaps help myself and maybe others by concentrating my project assignment on the French move in general, and all aspects of it therein.

 

What I am asking/proposing is this.  Most of you on this forum have all the collective knowledge that is required to make the move to France, because you have actually done it. People like me could benefit from that knowledge immensely if someone had or could draw that knowledge together not as a book that must be ploughed through, but as a live workable project, from which as a user you could extract those elements that were suited to your situation, and leave those elements that were not.  That is what I am hoping to do, and to make available to all members of the site.

 

What could you do to help:

 

Sit back and think about what you did to effect your move to France (see list below for some ideas), try to breakdown what you did into individual tasks, think about how long individual tasks took (I am seeking to break time down to task level in order to develop realistic overall project timescales), what they cost in total (I am seeking to break costs down to task level), what problems you encountered (I am seeking to develop a list of task related issues potential expats need to address), think about documentation required (I am seeking to drawn up a comprehensive documentation database attached to the project).  If you read books you would recommend, please send the references, and send your name (for acknowledgement purposes). I am basically looking to plunder your brains on anything you did that was part of your move to France. 

 

If you can help, Please email details of your tasks/steps to France to [email protected]

That’s DLJ but in lowercase………………………………………Thanks

 

Possible tasks to consider (please add your own as well)

 

Initial research, initial visits, house-hunting generally, identifying the right property, the purchase process, planning the move, closing down affairs in the UK, banking, finance issues generally, French utilities, pets, kids (same thing ), kids into school, renovations work, phones (mobile/house), cars, Licences, id cards, Liber-t doofers, setting up a fully legal gite/chamber d’hote, installing a pool, planning permissions in general, establishing health care, dental care, signing on with a doctor/dentist, disability issues etc

 

If you did it….let me know what it was, how much it cost, how long it took, etc etc.

 

My aspiration is to draw up the finished project in PDF format and make available on the site, and also for those running MS Projects, make a version available on disk (free except for postage)

[Ejc]

Hi Chief,

This sounds a good idea in principal - and as I work in project management and use a form of MSP for running large complicated projects I looked at doing something like this. The issue I ran into is there are too many variables - the number of house hunting trips, trips for the compromis, then the acte then everything else around this. By all means draw something up for yourself covering what you want to do- but to try and make a generic plan to cover all of the above - virtually impossible... sorry.

All the best with your project

 

 

[Chief]

Hi there.

 

Aim is to create an 'average project' scenario/expectancy, rather than a rigid 'this is what you have to follow' scenario.  For example, the average cost planning permission, average time planning permission takes, average time from offer to acte de vente, etc etc.  This provides a basis for moving forward with realistic expectations of the process and the costs involved, as wll as the stages in the process that the costs will likely arise, and gives the person a means of looking forward and planning ahead from start to finish.

cheers

dave

[Quillan]

As a user of MSP for many years and likewise covering small to very large projects I agree with Ejc in that there are to many variables. As and example if you do a search through this forum you will see that the time from signing the pre contract to actually completing can take anything from four weeks to nearly a year.

There was a person on this forum about 6 months back who did a spread sheet with costs and things you needed to do etc but I can't remember who it was (perhaps they will read this and come forward). I think a spread sheet is the better way as most people can change it how they want were as MSP means that only those who have MSP can do this. The other side is of course the French (ah the French), trying to get them to work to a dead line is like finding rocking horse manure outside your door, neigh on impossible.

[P]

Have to agree on the variables.

We are a year down the line since starting to search for a house. Umpteen trips and one failed attempt to purchase - we turned up for the signing of the Compris, the vendor backed out.

Probably be more changes to a project plan for moving to France than for the Wembley Stadium[:)]

Missed the spreadsheet - would very much like to see that.

Paul

[Dog]

What a fantastically imaginative idea... not.

I reckon you'd be better to make some money than to waste time doing this - it would be like painting the Forth Road Bridge.

With the little insight I have of your personality you may be better considering Switzerland as a place to live.

This is intended to be a humorous piece of personal advice and not a negative comment on an enormous task.

[Cassis]

I think your best bet is just to trawl the forum - whatever knowledge people have is there, in the main.

[Chief]

We are a negative bunch today...........no probs, thanks for reading anyway.[:)]

[Cassis]

Sorry, chief - it's been a long day/week/month/year and I wouldn't know where to begin writing "My Story So Far ...." . [:)]

[Benjamin]

I know you don't really mean that everyone is negative but it's a question of how long is a piece of string.

As an example a question crops up on the forum from time to time regarding the cost of using different heating sources. As it happens we have an all electric house with underfloor heating. Having lived here for over a year now I have chapter and verse for our costs for all sorts of things electric but I rarely reply to a specific question because we all vary so much in our living styles and my response would probably only mislead someone else.

Boring answer too.

Benjamin

[Dick Smith]

Sorry, Chief, but I don't have any enthusiasm for writing other people's assignments!

I think Phil's advice is good.

[chessfou]

Initial research,  total ca 4 years (1999-2003), cost next to nothing (aside from maybe 800 hours)

initial visits, ca.5 (2003-2005, short - 3-4 days), cost of each ca. £700 (incl. car hire, nice meals and good hotels and occasionally cost of one child or other)

house-hunting

generally, by chance spotted something on internet shortly before planned initial "serious" house hunt

identifying the right property,  by chance instant (albeit 6 years after start of initial research)

the purchase process,

N/A (renting - involved complications and took more than two months to get the lease sorted)

planning the move, when do you start calculating? We planned to move May 2006 and started serious move planning (de-cluttering, projections, misc. arrangements Aug 2005 - 4 months before "serious" house hunt and 9/10 months before move)

closing down affairs in the UK, see above

banking, more than 18 months before move - ensuring all necessary internet access established, checking which accounts could be maintained in France and which not

finance

issues generally, checking French CGT issues and selling profitable investments inside UK tax wrappers (ISAs, PEPs etc) to avoid having to pay French CGT on gains

French utilities, straightforward

pets, N/A

kids (same thing ), planning for youngest to be settled at University before leaving UK

kids into

school, N/A

renovations work, N/A

phones (mobile/house), additional (French) SIM card for wife's mobile phone (I avoid them like plague) + FT line (+ADSL) in housr - straightforward

cars, donated wife's to eldest son (working in Swansea), drove mine here (with our most precious items & financial documents) and re-registered as French (total cost of re-registration ca. £1000 - headlights, etc. etc.)

Licences, still using UK driving licences (after 5 months) but will soon get round to changing

id

cards, Titres de Sejour (initially 5 years) now in hand but errors on them and have to be re-issued

Liber-t doofers, ???

setting up a fully legal gite/chamber d’hote,

N/A

installing a pool, N/A

planning permissions in general, N/A

establishing health

care, dental care, CPAM/Carte Vitale - straightforward but very difficult to establish likely cost of  (30% - usually - top up), eventually discovered that did make sense to get a Mutuelle (annual cost for 2 about the same as private healtch cover for 1 in UK)

signing on with a doctor/dentist, straightforward (albeit CPAM lost first lot of documentation) thanks to discussions with neighbours and landlord, which ruled out several of the local possibilities and soon ruled in one particular health centre

disability issues N/A

"Doubled up" UK & FRA for 3 months, so took out rental agreement 3 months before our move (during which time we made 3 short visits - to sign lease and inventory, to get bed + white goods + misc bits + ADSL delivered and, finally, to make sure that ADSL  and everything else properly installed and functional).

Following numbers are "top of head"

Approx amount spent on research, visits etc. before starting the acquisition process - ca. £4,000

Cost of getting rental agreement in place (inc. 2 visits) - ca. £2,000

Furniture & white goods for new home: ca. £7,000 (of course, other people would do this for less)

Removal inc. our travel costs - ca. £5,000

Misc. costs - ca. £3,000

Duplication of rental costs - ca. £3,000

For us, ca. £24,000 (much more if we had been selling in UK & buying in France, rather than renting - in each case).

6-7 years of preparation (including at least a couple of hundred hours researching financial matters, including ca. 100 hours reading and checking contents of "Vos droits, Votre argent 2005".

All made easier by the fact that both my wife (near fluent) and I speak more than adequate French (i.e. no real problems on the phone - that is to say no real language problems on the phone - just the usual ones that apply when speaking to someone in English on the phone in the UK and they "can't/won't" do what they should or what you want or what they said they would).

HTH

[Chief]

Cheers Chessfou...some interestuing stuff there.  As i have said, the aim is not to develop a precision tool here, but a bit of ball park planning. Thanks for your help.

[Chief]

[quote user="Dick Smith"]Sorry, Chief, but I don't have any enthusiasm for writing other people's assignments!
[/quote]

Hi Dick.  You would not be writing anything for me, and nor would i let you.  I have more than enough qualifications and intellect to do them myself.  The project is a small part a portfolio of management work that i will be undertaking and submitting as part of an MBA.  The submitted project will be specific to myself, and will detail MY plans for moving abroad, with MY issues, costs, timescales etc. 

When devising this project, i realised that it was probably a small step to use a lot of the information i have already gathered, and would eventually gather, to write something more generic, that perhaps others could use, and benefit from.  But i guess i hadn't considered the cynics amongst us.

Enjoy your life. [:D]

[Deimos]

(Just seen the version over here as well).

chief commented: "But i guess i hadn't considered the cynics amongst us."

If you are doing your MBA and want to become a manager you should know or learn that advice from those who have experience beyond your own is definitely worthwhile - particularly when a number of such people all seem to give the similar advice. It has nothing to do with being cynical. Sometimes specific techniques are inappropriate and when starting something that is outside your own experience you are well advised to listen to those who have the experience. Maybe that is where your management lesson from this assignment comes ?

One aspect to being successful in business/management is knowing what techniques to use when and to appreciate the limitations of those techniques. I am surprised that your tutors gave such an assignment (maybe a "trick question ?)

Ian

[Dog]

Let's face it the more you know the less sure you are.

On the other hand I hate enthusiasm - give me a professional everytime.

Isn't a move to another country an enjoyable adventure - who wants to do it by the book. A new set of circumstances to overcome or adapt to makes life more interesting.

[P]

Chief, if doing an MBA then best of luck to you.

One of the things about doing an MBA is getting stuck in and finding out about things that you may know nothing about - and a large part of it is discussing the theory from the various books in relation to the practice and being challenging - this is the real part and the one on which a piece of work will be judged.

I am indebted to all who assisted me when doing mine - I hasten to add just background information and not writing it for me.

I am sorry that I cannot help you but I do hope that others who ae knowledgeable do.

However, it does seem to be something that has more variables than the weather

Paul

 

[Dick Smith]

Chief - you are asking us to do your work (the research) for you, so please don't get snotty and talk about cynics, that's about as cynical as it gets. I wish that my MA had been as easy as asking people on a discussion forum to write (sorry, type) a long list of what they did and send it to me so that I could correlate it and get a qualification (or at least an MBA...)

[Renaud]

What makes variables variable are other variables.

(Eric Spekerman)

[Chief]

Quote (Chief - you are asking us to do your work (the research) for you, so please don't get snotty and talk about cynics, that's about as cynical as it gets. I wish that my MA had been as easy as asking people on a discussion forum to write (sorry, type) a long list of what they did and send it to me so that I could correlate it and get a qualification (or at least an MBA...)...Quote

Totally incorrect again, and on several fronts.  Firstly, the project is marked on design, structure, validity and not on specific content. It accounts for roughly 5% of marks in a combined module of work, and hardly qualifies anyone for a qualification (or at least an MBA...i bow to your obviously superior qualifications, because they must have been so much harder when you were a boy).  

I have chosen this subject simply because i intend to move to france, and believed that the expanded project (that which i intended adding outside of the educational remit, might help others). As far as the university are concerned, you can actually write the content in Latin, they are not interested and it has been made clear that there are NO additional marks being awarded for accuracy or relevance of content, again, it is structure, layout, column relevance, chosen methods of analysis, etc that are being judged.  Whats in the column doesn't matter, chosing the right columns to have in relation to your chosen area does...the assignment is essentially about being able to sit down and talk through why you have done certain things, chosen methods of analysis, used certain layouts, etc etc...its a demonstration of understanding in relation to teh concepts already researched and taught.

Secondly, if i were studying a subject like psychology for instance, is not soliciting testimonials, real life experiences, medical history, etc etc a legitimate part of the research process...i think so, ......as was said to me once before, live life looking forward, understand life looking backwards.

Bottom line Dick, you have jumped to a judgement about myself and my intent, that is not borne out in reality.  I currently have a Master's Degree in International Business, and a Bsc (Hons) degree in psychology. Without malice mate, i don't need you or anyone else on an internet forum to write assignments for me. My intent, as stated before, was to try and produce the work i required for my studies, and adapt, enhance, etc that package of work to perhaps suit people here who may find it of some use, similar to those who adapt Phd thesis for subsequent publication i guess.

But hey..who am i to argue with someone who did a Masters Degree...wow........

 

[Chief]

Hi Dick.

Interesting website you have Dick....especially the section where you explain you are researching for a book.  Here's a quote direct from the page

' I am researching the First World War, largely in Carshalton, but looking at how life changed for those who went and those who stayed, and working on a book about Carshalton in 1881. I am always very grateful for any information on either topic.

You wouldn't be wanting people to write the book for you would you Dick.....no, surely you couldn't be so contradictory, not you, you have a Masters Degree.  Your up above accusing me of wanting others to do my work, and what do we find on your very own site.....................................laughable mate

 

[Cassis]

Any chance we could just let this drop? [:(]

[Benjamin]

The pigs passed over us shortly after 9 this morning.

They'll just about be approaching Alençon by now.

Benjamin

[Monika]

I have read this thread with interest but do not get Benjamin's posting. Is it sarcastic? What pigs?

Always willing to learn!!

[andyh4]

Slightly obtuse.

Alludes to the saying

"Pigs will fly"

meaning never.