What's wrong with French paint?

[thunderhorse]

It seems that no matter to whom I speak (or who I speak to [:P] ), French paint gets slagged off as being inferior and expensive.

Expensive, I agree, but so is some trade emulsion and other 'trade' paints from some of the big DIY superstores, where cheap means extra coats to cover.

I've painted acres of aircraft carrier, and been a professional painter and decorator, and met some dodgy paint in England. But so far with French oil-based paint, it's absolutely fine (Gemo), as is Lasure for wood, and metal primer.

So what experiences have others had which gives French paint such bad press? What brands are no-nos? Is it problems with emulsion, or all paints across the board?

[Beryl]

If only we could have found a decent range of emulsion without paying an absolute fortune for it.

 I think that is the problem, they don't seem to use emulsion but a heavier paint which seems to show up any and every imperfection in the walls. It also seems to have a  far more of a glossy finish than I would ideally like and its hard to use. Apart from that, its fine!

[Teamedup]

It used to be dire and we found that we always need to plan for three coats and fingers crossed that we would get away with two. The gloss was terrible and always seemed to thin and for me, at least, hard to put on.

The very worst vernis I ever bought was made by Valentine, with a very tiny ICI logo on it, so I paid the price. It would not dry and went on patchy. Dreadful stuff and I had a heck of a job getting it off.

 

I have had some good lasure since, but I usually go for Zweihorn Holzlasur, which I think is by ICI Germany. I find that that goes on really well, easy to use, great finish and lasts. I have used Mr Bricolage's non drip neutral vernis too, to very good effect. 

 

Emulsions are better than they ever were. I have put one coat ones on and that is all it has taken. The worst one I have had in the recent past was the most expensive of the Dulux range and the finish was awful. It is sturdy though and will wipe down and it would have been really handy when we had young kids. All the other Dulux emulsions apart from this particular one had been very good.

 

I still find paint expensive in France, but the quality is OK these days IMO.

[Bobc]

"It seems that no matter to whom I speak (or who I speak to Stick out

tongue [:P] ), French paint gets slagged off as being inferior and

expensive.

Expensive, I agree, but so is some trade emulsion and other 'trade'

paints from some of the big DIY superstores, where cheap means extra

coats to cover.

I've painted acres of aircraft carrier, and been a professional painter

and decorator, and met some dodgy paint in England. But so far with

French oil-based paint, it's absolutely fine (Gemo), as is Lasure for

wood, and metal primer.

So what experiences have others had which gives French paint such bad

press? What brands are no-nos? Is it problems with emulsion, or all

paints across the board?"

Generally, good quality paint is far more expensive in France than the UK.

To take Dulux, which is part of the same overall company in Europe -

the range of colours available in the UK is far wider than in France

and the price is much higher in France.

If you have a colour that you like from a Dulux UK colour chart then

the UK trade centre will give you a code that you can take to a Dulux

mixing centre in France to obtain the same colour.

Good French brands - Dulux, Ripolin and AVI at a price.

Wherever possible I use Farrow & Ball from the UK - superb paint

which is in keeping with old French properties. You can order on-line

from their website with a one-off 30 Euro delivery charge for one tin

or however many.

For artisans they offer a discount and credit terms - we just fax our

orders to their showroom in Paris and the paint is delivered from the

UK within 3 or 4 days.

Even allowing for the delivery charge it is more cost effective than French Dulux paint and far better quality.

www.farrow-ball.com

Regards,

Bob Clarke

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux

[Anton Redman]

Just painted five bedrooms on Astral. vareying shades of :  off white, near white, might as well be magnolia, I can't beleive it not white, I wish I could get my knickers this clean.  

I wish I bought the Dulux stuff which starts pink so you can at least see where you have painted. All off them were single coat which did cover in a single coat. Price checked versus the UK this December  and it was not worth bringing paint back from UK. Best posting I ever read on the 'Screwfix' site was simply called 'Twice' with text 'Oh yes it is'  Versus Wickens and Brewers with a trade account against Leroy Merlin or Bricodepot I could not make  any significant savings. I think a lot of people compare prices in UK 5 or 6 years ago when they last redecorated their house with current prices in France

[Deimos]

[quote

user="Anton Redman"]

I wish I bought the Dulux stuff which starts pink so you can at least see

where you have painted.

[/quote]

I used that stuff in the UK once – but not again again.  It went on fine, turned white no problems,

etc. However, a damp winter, unheated attic and condensation on the walls

caused pink runs down the walls and pools of pinkish water at the bottom on the

skirting.  I now use a light and you can see where you've painted from the reflection (at least with matt or satin paint you can).

I’ve had condensation on walls before but never with pink

dye in it.

Ian

[Eslier]

I too have had excellent results with Astral Monocouche (just how many shades of white do they have ?). I can't say that I found it particularly expensive either - I'm sure I would have paid just as much for something of similar quality in England.  I saw last week that Astral now has a pink which turns white too.  Not sure I'm brave enough to try it though!!

I suspect that the reputation for poor quality comes from Brits being seduced by those big white plastic tubs of unknown brand cheap white paint that always seemto be on special offer in the brico sheds. Unfortunately I guess you get what you pay for.

[Teamedup]

Nothing to do with 'reputation' at all. I always knew the theory of buying paint and one paid more for a decent brand, and it went on better and one needed less coats.

I bought the dearer ones in France or with that little dulux logo which was also expensive and it was still lousy.  So really nothing at all to do with cheap tubs. In the past I have paid much for c rap.

 

The paint I want next is a lot cheaper in the UK, in fact almost half the price of comparible french paint.

[Agenais]

The 10 ltr tins from Auchan, their own make, is about one of the best white emulsion paints.  They do their own white wood paint, great for doors and windows, inside and out, would recommend both. We, like most folks, have tried just about everything.  The cheapy ones at 7 euros for 5 litres are like painting with diluted skimmed milk, some of the very expensive ones are not a deal better and need more coats than a nordic skier.  L'Eclerc do a nice range of chalk effect paints, but, we are not planning for a bank loan to buy paint at the moment.[:|]  

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Eslier"]

I suspect that the reputation for poor

quality comes from Brits being seduced by those big white plastic tubs

of unknown brand cheap white paint that always seemto be on special

offer in the brico sheds. Unfortunately I guess you get what you pay

for.

[/quote]

I would tend to agree with you: we have had excellent results from the

more expensive paints such as Astral and the Dulux Valantine range. On

thing I would suggest is that French paint maunfacturers rather assume

that surfaces are properly prepared before application - new plaster

being coated with an appropriate sous couche (Julian - the brand with

the daft looking seal on the front do a fine range of these), etc.

British made paint seems to be more forgiving. I have seen some

interesting paint effects arising from failure to read the tin.

Mind you, some of the directions can be a bit...restrictive Ever read

the instructions for the 3V exterior gloss that comes with a 10 year

gaurantee? "This guarantee is only valid in the case of applications

made to new exterior wood cut from the green heart of the Iceland Oak

and carved by hand by Eskimos using walrus tusk tools. Three coats are

required and each must be applied only at the time of a new moon in

february by a vestal virgin using a dodo feather brush. Allow 24 hours between coats. This guarantee

is only available in parts of France administered by the 4th republic."

It felt like French paint was expensive until I actuallty wrote down

some prices from B&Q, converted them to euros (an important step I

occasionally omit) and compared them to find that there wasn't much in

it for the better brands. The other advantage of buying in France is

that one can always get more of the same colour if one is silly enough

to underestimate.

The one thing that I have never been able to find a good substitute for

- Dulux Trade Quick Drying Primer and Undercoat for wood. I have run

out now, and the prospect of a supply from the UK looks unlikely for

many moons. Bring lots.

[zeb]

We have been lucky enough to have most of our paint brought over by folks from the UK.

We came out 4 years ago with a couple of 10 litre tubs of B&Q white matt and now have to supply our neighbours and friends when we make a trip back to the UK.

For my interior design work (!) copied from Arte & Decoration I've used some Casto emulsion which was excellent - thick and creamy and not too dear. Someone, I think it was Jongleurs, years ago recommended this. We've also used the Cire tinted wax stuff (from Casto) for sponging over emulsion coated rough plasterwork, looks great. Arte & Deco would be proud of us!

For the shutters we used French Dulux Valentine pour bois just in case UK paint didn't stand up to the heat. Cost a fortune but is OK.

As a sealer, as PVA doesn't seem to be available, we use white sous couche from the brico, usually Astral.

Will have to try Farrow and Ball, Bob. It's available in La Rochelle apparently. Everyone I know who has used it, sings its praises.

[Gyn_Paul]

When I made shutters a few years ago, my wife fell for a particular shade of lavende in the Dulux Valentine range. I filled, sealed, primed, and undercoated (twice) the damn things with the appropriate Valentine paints then applied the (very expensive) Valentine top coat. Within the space of one summer the paint was pealing off. Worst on the West and South windows, but far from acceptable on the north.

The top coat was such a sod to put on (streaks, drags, lines, etc.)  I kept looking at the tin to check I hadn't accidentally picked up some cheap own-brand; certainly not the quality and 'feel' I would have expected of UK-Dulux.

If I'm going to have to strip and repaint every couple of years then it might as well be with something that's a hell of a lot cheaper than Valentine!

Whilst what others have said about the price in France may well be true (ex-pats frozen price-point memory syndrome),  I feel we tend not to see in the Bricos here the equivalent of the B&Q Bank Holiday loss-leader priced stacks of 5 L Dulux Brilliant White and Magnolia which you regularly fall over in the UK, own brands - yes, but top of the range stuff - no.

p

[sid]

I've not been able to find an equivalent for timber paint; this is the coloured stuff for painting sheds and fences eg Cuprinol Garden Shades. They just don't seem to do it here. Is it incapable of withstanding a dry summer perhaps? I want to paint a couple of panels of screen fencing and the thought of paying 50€ a tin for "microporeuse" or "lasure teinte" makes me cringe. Anyone found an acceptable product?

I've not had any problems with the paint so far; lasure seems particularly durable compared to UK stuff. A garden bench has weathered a hot summer without any signs of peeling or cracking. Also, the stuff for painting rusty railings works a treat too.

[Teamedup]

gyn paul, I have brought some paint back from the UK recently and it has worked out at half the price I would have paid if I had bought in France. I simply could not get the colour I wanted in France hence buying there, so no memory problems about price for me. I bought a five litres tin for the price of a 2.5 litre tin of paint in France.

 

 b&q's everywhere and casto's everywhere paint is a lot dearer in France even taking into account the exchange rate.

[Deimos]

I used to have loads of problems finding the colours I

wanted.  Then I took to having the

colours mixed specially.  It actually

works out no more expensive than the pre-mixed paints except that you can

select the base paint (i.e. cheap or quality).

When I first moved to France I was horrified by the cost of

paint.  However, after looking round a

bit more I have found that you can get perfectly good paints for a very

reasonable price (i.e. reasonable quality paint UK/France price pretty well the

same).  The same brand is not always

good “across their range”.  For example,

some Leroy Merlin wood paint is a disaster whilst their “own brand” emulsion is

fine and reasonable price (in my experience). 

My experience is that if you just “go and buy” then you will pay a

lot.  If you look around and select

carefully you will pay a lot less and still get decent quality.

I don’t know if it’s marketing but France seems to have a

lot more “micro porous” wood paints than the UK (unless UK just don’t market

paints on that basis).

As others have commented, I find the Astral range pretty good

quality and price for emulsions.

I have always avoided getting paint from the UK as I’m sure

I would run-out and need a little more. 

Also, don’t know how true it is but I’ve been told that parts of France

have much wider temperature ranges than the UK and thus the paints are designed

to withstand the wider ranges (where UK paints are not so designed) – no idea

how true this is, just repeating what I have been told.

Ian

[Pepsimax]

We have also had problems with finding paint that will cover turquoise paint and have had to paint three or four layers on. We have the added problem in the next bit of painting as the electrcians plastering has left pathways of new plaster on the walls. A friend has suggested a sealer of some kind which will then allow us to paint over these tracks and the paint will not then soak into the walls. has anyone done this?

[Renaud]

Van Gogh had trouble with French paints too, if you see his museum in Amsterdam lemon yellow and prussian blue dominate the paintings as the other colours have faded badly. Admittedly he bought cheaply. So go for the expensive paints. 

[Gyn_Paul]

[quote user="Renaud"]Van Gogh had trouble with French paints too, if you see his museum in Amsterdam lemon yellow and prussian blue dominate the paintings as the other colours have faded badly. Admittedly he bought cheaply. So go for the expensive paints. [/quote]

That's because the summer before he bought the paint was cold and there were relatively few cochineal beetles around, so the paintmakers had to make do with grinding up a few of the death-watch !

p

[mmzz]

ive wasted many euros on many diferent types of french paint, which now languishes in my shed. I like a lot of things about france but definately not their paint. Its to thin, or to thick, or doesnt cover. It could be me of coarse but i dont have any problem with paint i bring over from uk

[Deimos]

[quote user="mmzz"] ... Its to thin, or to thick,

or doesnt cover. It could be me of coarse but i dont have any problem with

paint i bring over from uk[/quote]

 

I’ve actually had similar problems with some paint in the

UK.  Doing-up my house in the UK before

selling/moving I purchased this expensive “one-coat” Dulux paint that was the

consistency of butter.  Paint it on a

bit, then the next strip and it “tore-up” the area I’d painted a few moments

ago.  So bad I binned it and purchased

some ordinary emulsion (cheaper, etc.)and it worked.  Similarly, painted the windows with exterior water based “reputable

brand” UK paint  and 4 weeks later it

was splitting and peeling !!! Never yet had the same problems with French paint

despite hotter summers and colder winters – its not perfect but neither is the

UK stuff.

Ian

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Pepsimax"]We have also had problems with finding paint

that will cover turquoise paint and have had to paint three or four

layers on. We have the added problem in the next bit of painting as the

electrcians plastering has left pathways of new plaster on the walls. A

friend has suggested a sealer of some kind which will then allow us to

paint over these tracks and the paint will not then soak into the

walls. has anyone done this?[/quote]

Try the "Julian" stuff I mentioned - sous couche No 4 I think, but check the tins.

[Deimos]

[quote user="jond"]

Try the "Julian" stuff I mentioned - sous couche No 4 I think, but

check the tins.

[/quote]

I find the Julian Primers excellent.  Cannot remember the two

"numbers" I use but the standard primer (containing insecticide, etc.)

and the primer for very resin’y wood (i.e. including knotting effect) both seem

excellent – and quite reasonable price.

 

Ian