f1steveuk Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 I'm going to be in the UK until December (yuk) but wondered if anyone can give me a head start on this.I want to install a gas (fluless) fire in my hall. I want to run a small bore pipe up from the cellar, and have the fire in the hall, but want to find one that looks like a fire, not one of these "dalek" type things. Anyone got anything like this, or know who does them in France.Ta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1steveuk Posted October 27, 2007 Author Share Posted October 27, 2007 Not unlike this![IMG]http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t215/f1steveuk/230206274.jpg[/IMG]This a UK one, but wont work (and has a flue) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 [quote user="f1steveuk"]I'm going to be in the UK until December (yuk) but wondered if anyone can give me a head start on this.I want to install a gas (fluless) fire in my hall. I want to run a small bore pipe up from the cellar, and have the fire in the hall, but want to find one that looks like a fire, not one of these "dalek" type things. Anyone got anything like this, or know who does them in France.Ta[/quote]If you are burning gas, or any fuel, you will certainly need some sort of flue / chimney. We had a "proper" looking gas fire in Wales some years ago, very inneficient (sp), expensive to run and a general waste of money (IMHO).You sound like you will be running lpg from the cellar. Be careful with gas cylinders stored in cellars, leaking lpg accumulates at low level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 And, IIRC, all gas installations (after 1/11 at least) must be installed by an "approved" - as in Qualigaz? - contractor.There will also be a requirement for gas reports on all installations after that date - like your asbestos/DPE/termites reports (sales only, I believe) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Plombier Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 NickYou are correct in what you state. It will be law that the seller will have to produce a gas certificate of conformity when they sell their property in future.I am gas qualified in France and I would never undertake to install a flueless gas heater, the are very dangerous if not properly maintained and monitored. You do not know that you have problems with carbon monoxide until you are dead unless you are incredibly lucky.The only reason they are legal in France is because of an EU directive which makes them legal throughout the EEC. The French gas regulations make it so difficult to obtain approval for installation of such an appliance that it is not worth bothering to install it in the first place. You mention the heater installation but make no reference to what you are going to install to provide ventilation, the regulations are very strict in regard to provision of ventilation.You can argue that it is no different to a cooker in your kitchen and, if you do you do not know the regulations in regard to the ventilation requirements for a gas cooker.There is no mention of whether the gas supply is natural gas, propane or butane. Again there are strict legal requirements to be complied with in regard to materials, methods of jointing, types of solder etc,etc that can be used.Gas installations are potentially very dangerous and should only be undertaken by a professional.LePlombier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1steveuk Posted October 29, 2007 Author Share Posted October 29, 2007 Another plan down the pan!!! Thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1steveuk Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 The plot thickens!!The fire shown above is LPG, but there are Calor & Butane versions. The bottle could actually be outside, and it is clearlt listed as not requiring a flue.http://www.socal.co.uk/At_Home/Portable_Gas_Heater/Provence_Living_Flame_Stove-_GREEN_-_Flueless_Calor_Gas_Heater__Fire_/3/17158This even has the bottle inside, and is portable, so is this the answer? Has to be cheaper than an electric one surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Plombier Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 My previous comments still applyIf you put the bottle outside it must be propane, in extreme cold weather butane will remain liquid and not vapouriseIf you put the bottle outside and run a supply to the fire it must be in copper tube and soldered with brasure forteThe principle problem with these heaters, and why they kill so many people, is that they are normally not serviced and maintained properly with the consequence that the emissions of the products of combustion become potentially more dangerous over timeIf you proceed with the installation I strongly urge you install a carbon monoxide detector close to the appliance, you can buy one in France for about 90 eurosLe Plombier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1steveuk Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 I'd have a monoxide detector anyway. It claims this unit converts monoxide to dioxide, and water, which means wet windows as well I suppose?!!I shall give the matter further thought..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Steve:All heaters which burn hydro-carbon fuel convert Carbon Monoxide (C0) to Carbon Dioxide (C02).C0 is part of the process of combustion.C0 combines with the Oxygen in the air and burns with a blue flame, taking on another Oxygen atom.The problem is, however, as La P states, if any heater is not correctly maintained, then it fails to properly combust all of the C0; which then combines through the lungs with red blood corpuscles (attaches in fact to the haemoglobin, which is what takes in the oxygen in the lungs and distributes this around your body).And makes you rather dead!Portable petrol heaters are the same, except as you know, for each litre of fuel burned you produce 1.1 litre of water vapour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I really don't think there is much difference in price between electric heating and bottled gas.I think this comparison will be based on tank delivered gas which works out cheaper.http://quotidiendurable.com/news/comparaison-des-differents-systemes-de-chauffageLe coût des énergies est assez différent, le prix moyen pour 100kWh TTC : - gaz naturel : 4,23 euros - fioul : 5,35 euros - propane : 9,82 euros - électricité : 11,06 euros - chaudière à bûches à tirage forcé : 3,05 eurosBy the time you add in.....the risks / general unpleasantness of gas heaters without flues....I have never come across any such heater that didn't taint the air in some way, even when they aren't downright dangerous.The loss of efficiency caused by added ventilation.The risk of condensation.The nuisance of fetching and carrying bottlesThe additional purchase cost of the heaters compared to portable electric heatingMaintenance of the heaters.As long as you have spare capacity in your electricity supply, I would stick with electric heating of some sort or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikew Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 And an efficient (not cheapo) heat heat pump will give out heat at one quarter the price of electricity. Ideal for those with limited elec supply, a useful 8 KW of heat from 2KW input. (Spec of our air/air system) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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