High ceiling - heat rising?

[Ssc]

Hi all, am in the design stages of building a lounge in the barn, floor size about 8m x 4m. We are contemplating building a small mezanine floor at one end about 3m x4m for an office. This will obviously leave the ceiling at around 4m high.

We will have two 2kw radiatiors and an 8kw wood burner. What concerns me is that all this heat will rise and stay on the ceiling and we will be cold down on the floor. If we fitted one or two of the reversible ceiling fans would this solve the problem, if indeed it will be a problem. We are in Limousin so cold winters are usual.

Anyone with suggestions or experience. Thanks

 

[maude]

We have similar effect,although the heat disappears up the stairs and overheats 2 bedrooms,even though the ceiling is only 3m high.We fitted a reversible fan some 3 years ago and seems to ease the problem.Glad we dont have this height to worry about.  Maude 

[Gastines]

Often wondered what is the best way around this problem, so I will read replies with interest. We have a large lounge 52 sq mtrs,marble tile floor +open marble on concrete staircase and heat loss was a problem in the winter. As there are only the 2 of us most winter months and we have a large bedroom+bathroom/wc on the ground floor ,I now block the staircase off at first floor level with Styrofoam sheets. Takes about 10 mins to put up.or remove, is hardly noticeable when downstairs. The difference has been that now I sit watching TV in the evening with a short sleeved shirt on.Well worth the effort and total cost about 20 euros.

Regards.

[James]

We have a room of 32 square metres with a 3.4 metre high ceiling with suspended wood floor. Facing N,W,E. It has 3 large windows of 1.85m x 1.66m each, that are new and double glazed wooden units. The walls are 600mm stone and are timber studs with insulated rockwool (Dense green backing) backed plasterboard of 40mm insulation and 10mm plasterboard. All of the walls are done in this. The ceiling is done in polystyrene backed plasterboard of the same thickness as this insulated board is 14 euros a sheet as opposed to 28 euros a sheet. Above the living room is a Bedroom, bathroom, landing and a large uninsulated storage area under the roof. We do have oil fired central heating and find it is the warmest room in the house. It has 3 cast iron radiators in the room of an output of about 5.6 kilowatts combined. We find just having 2 rads on with thermostatic rad valves on position 3-4 is enough to heat the room  well. The 2 rads have an output of up to 4kw. My Grandparents like it far warmer than most do.  We do have a 10Kw Supra woodburner and when that is going without the radiators on that gets too hot and we have to open the door to the hall.

The suspended and ventilated wooden floor also has 100mm of fibreglass insulation.

We do not find that it is cold at all. We have no mezzanine. 

Insulation is the key, with good heating. James.

[Dave&Olive]

hi ok

      my brother had the same problem in an old stone barn we done  back in wales ,,,, he come up with the idea

 he fitted a bathroom extractor fan( with a speed controller )  into a piece of 4"( could have been 6"")  drainage pipe ,running the full height of the house ,it used to suck the hot air from the eves and blow it out at floor level , worked that well he boxed it in and said he was going to patent the idea ..... that was a few years ago though so have a go

 Dave

[Jacqui Too]

[quote user="James"]

Insulation is the key, with good heating. James.

[/quote]

I totally agree

We moved into our new barn conversion 18 months ago and I was very sceptical about our main sitting room, it is the single story former coach house 8m x 7m approx 56 2m with the ceiling up to the ridge, 3 outside walls, large full height glazed doors and 1 small window.

As this was a total new conversion we have dug up the old brick floor, laid damp-proof membrane 3" poly insulation then sceed and topped with solid oak boards. the walls are all dry lined with 2" insulation backed plasterboard and skimmed, ceiling has about 4-5" insulation plasterboard and skim.

We have only 2 large double radiators to heat this room, no log burner or other fire, and I can tell you it only takes about 1 hour to warm up nicely after the heating starts in an evening, and I'm sure that if there was a mezzanine it would be to hot up there, but we find that the heat does circulate. And there are many times on mild evenings that we switch 1 rad off .

When we were considering heating for this room we thought of have power radiator that would draw air in from below and therefore create circulation but decided not to because of the constant noise of the fans, now we are glad we didn't waste our money

So my advice is to have as much insulation as possible and large enogh rads/ heating.

Jackie

[Ssc]

Thanks to all for your advice. 

Aware of the benefits of lots of insulation which is already factored in. I like the idea of ducted fans but they may be a bit noisy. Have to think about that one. I suppose the air will circulate naturally, as it cools a bit it will sink and be replaced by hotter air rising. I just didn't want to go ahead with this and end up with a cold room at floor level.

Anyone else with experience/suggestions , please chip in. 

[Will]

What you describe is almost exactly what we have. Except that it isn't a barn conversion. I wouldn't sacrifice the room proportions though for the sake of not wearing an extra layer in the winter. It doesn't get unduly warm at the top, it's just an enormous space to heat. Personally, if we were planning our own house (this one was done by previous French owners) I'd have exactly the same again if it was feasible.

[Chas]

Our lounge is about  30sq.m. and above is a mezzanine about 50sq.m. Height from lounge floor to mezzanine ceiling is about 8 m.  Until last year we had an open fire down stairs which was great for the lounge but struggled a bit with the hot/cold air circulation between lounge and mezzanine.  We had considered a large fan but never got round to it. We now have a Jotul 500 woodburner in the lounge which has a nominal output of 11Kw, to replace the open fire.  Compared to the open fire heat output has gone up dramatically coupled with a significant reduction in wood consumption. Lounge and mezzanine are both comfortably heated - mezzanine helped by the huge storage heater that is the chimney breast, with no problems from cold air anywhere.  The icing on the cake was the tax rebate on installation of the poele. [:)]

PS. Should perhaps have said that lounge floor is terracotta tiles, mezzanine is wood . All walls are stone and mezzanine ceiling is insulated.

 

[BIG MAC]

I wonder if you couldnt use a small heat reclaim unit?

[Chris Head]

What had you in mind Mac? The recuperateur d'air chaud you see in the bricos? Or something else? Any firther info or links?

[Ford Anglia]

<<Pedant hat on>> "Heat" actually doesn't rise. Hot air and hot water do though[;-)] <<Pedant hat off>>

[BIG MAC]

I was thinking along the lines of a reversed plate heat exchanger / heat pump as they would use in a supermarket to reclaim refrigerant heat  Chris

[BobDee]

Dosnt have to be an overhigh ceiling to trap all the hot air at the top. Just try getting on a step ladder and sampling how warm the air is at ceiling height compared with floor height. The extractor fan idea sounds excellent. A standard ceiling fan must be beneficial especially as they are just about all reversible and could blow the hot air from the ceiling down. Circulating the air has to be the answer.

BobD

[Gyn_Paul]

[quote user="Ford Anglia"]<<Pedant hat on>> "Heat" actually doesn't rise. Hot air and hot water do though[;-)] <<Pedant hat off>>

[/quote] Taking that to its logical conclusion, FA, there is therefore no such thing as 'heat'

Mr Newton seemed to think there was such a thing.... How does it go ?

        "..heat cannot of itself pass from one body to a hotter body" *

something like that, anyway

p

(* atrib. : Flanders, M)

[Gyn_Paul]

We had a living room 30sqm with a peak ceiling height of 7m. When it was being built I specified a 1.5mm cable along the ridge for a reversible fan. Everyone said what a great idea it was, but I have to say it didn't seem to make a great deal of difference, really.

Probably no help to the original poster, but in theory an underfloor heating system would seem to be the ideal solution for a large room with a high ceiling. Rather than have small sources of fairly intense heat (radiators), the design of which positively encourages convection currents enabling all that expensive heat (sorry FA, heated air [:P]) to migrate up into the room's peak, the entire floor area is a source of comparatively low temperature heat, which tends to form a temperature gradient hottest (comparatively: there should only be a handful of degrees difference between toes and ears) at ground level, with no convection current to speak of.  

That's the theory anyway. Ask me again this time next year when I've lived with the system I'm currently planning for a 68sqm living room with 8m peak (see also posting UFH).

p