Uncle Aggy Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Hi there,This is my first post here and I hope someone can help. We've bought Belling Range cooker in the UK with an LPG converter kit which we want to install in our French house. We have one of those big white Totalgaz LPG tanks in the garden. Is this the same kind of gas and are the fittings the same? I called belling but I don't think the person I spoke to actually wanted to help me.Has anyone brought a range cooker with them and hooked it up to the same sort of gas supply?Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Totalgaz France, normally supply Propane in tanks.Look here:In France, gas, in bottles and tanks can be either Propane or Butane: most bulk tanks are propane.In order to convert any gas appliance, it is critical to use the correct jets: jets for Propane will not work correctly with Butane and visa versa.So, firstly check with your local Totalgaz supplier that your tank facility is usually Propane: and then source a conversion kit, accordingly.LPG is one of those commonly used terms which are a bit of a misnomer: Liquified Petroleum Gas can be constituted of mixtures of , Butane, Propane and even Methane etc.It is purified and concentrated, according to purpose, as required.LPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Previous post is quite correct - just to add.I recently bought a gas hob in France - it came with, I think 3 sets of jets in the bag with the instructions which were for natural gas, butane and propane if memory serves - it was an easy diy job to swap them but it is critical you use the right one. - the manufacturer of the hob should be able to supply the right jets if you didn't get them with the hob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 I think that you will always find that domestic gas tanks are propane GS? Butane would 'freeze' in the winter and you would have no gas. Propane 'freezes' at -40C, that is it stops giving off the gas on the top of the liquid.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Your, of course, quite right, Jonz.Bad hair day today..................How's the Knotting?[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Not in [:P]!!!I'm just getting over sticking my little finger into an uneven bit of wood doing 2000 rpm. Got a nice blood blister on the end now, so you have to be kind to me!![:(] Made a nice bowl out of it though...We had propane at ur house in the U.K. for almost 23 years and now here for the past 3 years. No problems at all. I believe that the fittings are the same here. If I remember correctly they use imperial sizes, but I stand to be corrected if needed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 When I got involved in wood turning at school, the master insisted we first mounted the wood on the top side using screws through the back of a faceplate: and then turned a small step on the bottom and rough out the sides.We then had to take a bit of gash wood and turn a matching stepped hole.The base of the bowl was then glued with a paper spacer (old tech drawing plans: everything was scarce 'cos it was only 8 years after the war!), using the new Aroelite 365 Two Part Resin wood glue, into the gash wood.I was convinced that when turning the face and finishing the sides and rim, the whole bloody chunk of mahogany would zoom off around the 'shop!Never did.How do you hold the bowl?Sorry OP and Mods: back on topic now!Hope the digit gets better soon Jonz![:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Plombier Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Talk to a professionalIf you have a buried tank and you are installing a cooker, if there is a flue or alteration to any rigid pipework you will need a Certificate of Conformity for the workYou may also have problems if your cooker does not conform to the NF standardIf you did not have the tank installed yourself and you are taking over the contract with the distributor for gas supply they may conduct a daignostic surveyIf they are not satisfied they will not supply gas until you undertake remedial work and produce a certificateGas in tanks here is propane, 1.5bar pressure from the tank to the DDS, 37mbar from the DDS to the applianceDDS is a combined shut off and safety valveThe supply from the tank, if altered must be retested to 3bar pressure, must be in copper and soldered brazure forteIf you have a gas leak with Propane it requires only 2% concentration in the air to form an explosive mixtureIt is now law in France that properties for sale must have a gas diagnostic certificate, along with termites, lead, asbestos etc.People do their own plumbing, very badly looking at some of the posts on this forum, but in the end they get very wet, have no hot water or just freeze due to lack of heatGas is a different matter and should only be installed by a registered professional, as is the legal requirementIf your talk to a professional you will get answers to all your questions, a proper installation and the knowledge you can sleep safe in your bed at nightLe Plombier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Good advise LP! We havejust had our central heating boiler replaced with a condensing boiler and part of the fit was a complete check of the gas system because it is required by law. We now have that certificate and do sleep easy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Ensuring that the OP can source the correct jets in France, prior to taking the range to France, of course.If not, then they will have to source a propane conversion kit in the UK, firstly.Still, as you say Le P, then we are back to the old thorny matter of type approval.Once more................ [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Plombier Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Thanks JohnThe gas regs here are very complicated, you need to assess each installation separately to apply them correctlyProfessionals must undertake an exam to requalify every three years, are subject to audit by Qualigaz frequently and face severe penalties if installations do not conform strictly to the regulationsThey also face criminal prosecution if injury or death is proven to be as a result of their work, even if it is not they will be the first to be arrested. Do the work yourself and kill your nearest and dearest you will probably only lose out on the insurance payment.I don't complain about the regs, despite the problems they cause to me and my fellow professionalsThey keep me on my toes and they are there for a purpose, to protect lifeLe Plombier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Guerriere Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 With regard to a gas cooker coming from UK, gas jets can be a problem. Some cookers may be provided with butane (bottled gas) jets but propane jets are not so common. If you don't get jets with the cooker as a matter of course it can be difficult as UK cooker people may not supply jets to other than CORGI registered fitters.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 [quote user="Gluestick"]Still, as you say Le P, then we are back to the old thorny matter of type approval.Once more................ [:)] [/quote]But it seems to be the issue that everyone ignores. Despite it's crticallity (is that a word?). Does the OP's cooker have NF approval? If it doesn't, then surely its installation would be illegal. Things can't be slightly illegal, or almost illegal, can they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 When I first started becoming involved in engineering, Nick, I was taught that it's a bit like pregnancy: one can't be a little bit pregnant: it's either yes or no! And with engineering, a thing is right or it isn't.I too am at a loss to grasp why so many people are desperate to take non-compliant devices across the Channel.All else apart, if it breaks, it can be a real pig to source spare parts.KISS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 [quote user="Nick Trollope"][quote user="Gluestick"]Still, as you say Le P, then we are back to the old thorny matter of type approval.Once more................ [:)] [/quote]But it seems to be the issue that everyone ignores. Despite it's crticallity (is that a word?). Does the OP's cooker have NF approval? If it doesn't, then surely its installation would be illegal. Things can't be slightly illegal, or almost illegal, can they?[/quote]They seem to be able to be if you drive peut etra [6][6][Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Guerriere Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 But you can't get French cookers with separate grills.... and SHMBO requires one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Do check with the manufacturer's instructions about what type of gas, and most importantly at what pressure, should be used with the LPG burners. Some will work on both butane and propane with the same jets. Our Neff gas hob, for example, has standard LPG jets for butane at 28-30 mbar and propane at 37 mbar. If the cooker is permanently plumbed into a system fed from a fixed tank it must be done professionally by a registered installer, and he must check that the correct regulator is fitted to give the required pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonzjob Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Once again I may be wrong, but if you have a bulk tank as we have then the regulator is on the tank, fitted by the tank owner, and will be correct for the supplied gas? Here, like the U.K., you never own the tank, just rent it from the supplier. Also here the supplier does an inspection on the tank every 3 years and corrects any faults. Our last inspection also included the tank being pressure washed as well, which is more than we ever got with the 10 year inspection from Calor.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesFlamands Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I haven't read all the replies to this but it is not legal to fit an appliance without the appropriate labelling (certification). If, however, you use the proper parts and stick to the letter of the law as regards ventilation etc. I'm sure it will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yetagain Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 You can buy cookers in France with a separate grill. The make is Falcon. They look similar to the British range cookers, have such things as wok a stand and removable griddle. I have a Belling range cooker which I have been disappointed with. The only drawback with the falcon models (which I saw in But this week) is the price - over 2000€ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TefkaC Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I may be missing something here but would you buy a gas appliance in France and then ship it back to the UK? Has anyone witnessed a gas explosion, I have nuff said......Hope you make the right desion. Charlie...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jondeau Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I would be very surprised if a modern UK appliance did not conform to all the norms required by French regulations.In fact, being that regulation is far more stringent in the UK it should exceed them. And if we ever get around to gas applances that are actually installed in many French properties......there are horror stories galore...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 It wouldn't matter if they exceeded the normes: UK sourced gas and electricity fittings (gas appliances are not portable) are not type-compliant in France.Period.Gas regulations in the UK are subject only to CORGI approved installers being the only person who can install and commission them.French artisans are subject to a whole host of regulation and insurance way above that required in the UK: whilst there are certain similarities (since gas engineering tends to be the same in terms of State-of-the-Art in most developed countries), each nation state enjoys its own idiosyncracies in regulation.When in Rome....................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jondeau Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 You're obviously not a gas fitter then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Plombier Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I give up, see you all in HeavenLe Plombier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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