Purchasing a Property with partially converted barn

[general-confusion]

Hi as per the title we are in the early stages of purchasing a property that has a barn as a continuation of the house (same wall and roof line). The current owner has laid a new concrete floor complete with provision for services , moved the kitchen into part of the barn area (all completed and looks like part of the house). They also have built some small blockwork rooms to house the boiler and for storage and has replaced the barn doors for new doors and windows. I assumed they would have had CU for this as they told me they were planning to make this a large living room , but when I asked we were told the following

"Permissions wise, I spoke to the marie when we started the 
renovations and there is no need for a CU, as the buildings are attached. 
You will have to declare them as an annex/ habitable space on a tax form 
though and your taxes will increase a bit (you pay more for habitable space 
and extra bathrooms!). None of the openings have been changed though, 
so no permissions as such are required. If you want to put in velux though, 
for example, you will need to fill in a 'declaration prealable' which 
takes 30 days from submission for permission to be granted."
Does this sound correct 

[alittlebitfrench]

Is the seller British by chance ? Why are they selling ?

I would never in a zillion billion years even for a price of a beer (no disrespect to anyone British trying to sell their home) buy a house in France from a British expat.

I might not sound like I am helping but methinks I am.

[general-confusion]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]Is the seller British by chance ? Why are they selling ?

I would never in a zillion billion years even for a price of a beer (no disrespect to anyone British trying to sell their home) buy a house in France from a British expat.

I might not sound like I am helping but methinks I am.[/quote]

Can you tell me why you say this ? , yes the seller is British but they are only moving across the lane to build a bigger property

[alittlebitfrench]

I am being a bit unkind with my first answer. I would buy off a British/expat seller, but I want to see all invoices from French artisans for any major work carried out in the house.

There are two types of British expats living in France. Those who choose to live in France and those who don't.

Those who don't have unfairly muddy the waters for those who do.

I am not answering your initial question but I doubt anyone can. Certainly I would not take the explanation given by the seller as fact.

[NickP]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]  I am being a bit unkind with my first answer. I would buy off a British/expat seller, but I want to see all invoices from French artisans for any major work carried out in the house.

There are two types of British expats living in France. Those who choose to live in France and those who don't.

Those who don't have unfairly muddy the waters for those who do.

I am not answering your initial question but I doubt anyone can. Certainly I would not take the explanation given by the seller as fact.[/quote]

Here we go, good to see the oracle in full flow, "There are two types of British expats living in France those who choose to live in France and those that don't" I would suggest that you refrain from commenting until the lunch time alcohol effect has worn off.

To the original poster, I would suggest you ask the agent dealing with the sale and also the Notaire, whatever they say get it in writing. We had a question about an outbuilding and it's lack of planning consent when we bought our French property, the agent dealt directly with the Notaire and we got a written explanation and confirmation that no further action could or would be taken, about the lack of Planning consent,  and that the building could stay. Job done. [:)]

[alittlebitfrench]

You are very funny....nickP.....hiccup

Just asking...what does the P stand for ?

Pint ? Picpoul de pinet ?

[andyh4]

General-Confusion,

do not take the statement from the vendor at face value. As NickP says ask the notaire and get an answer in writing.

The vendor may have asked "marie" for advice about a CU, but a more authoritative voice may have been the maire or even someone at the mairie. As it is I strongly doubt that Marie (whoever she is) understands the rules about CU.

[Quillan]

You also need to know if it comes under "architectes des bâtiments de France" as well, probably not but you never know. We didn't know at the time and nobody told us although it is not a big problem for us even though our restrictions are to do with a tapestry hanging inside a church which we can't even see yet they control things like design of shutters and their colour amongst many other things. The local DDE office is the place to visit as they are the ones who ultimatly give any type of building permission and not the mayor.

[Chancer]

I have scanned through and decided to ignore everything but the initial posting.

 

My answer to the question "does this sound right?" is a definitive, yes it does!

 

Other than perhaps forgetting or being tardy to declare the extra habitable space everything is in order and the lack of informing les impôts will work in your favour should you wish to let sleeping dogs lie.

 

Others will no doubt disagree, tell you that if it takes the habitable area over 170m2 you will be in the ca-ca, that you need an architect etc, they will be able to quote legislation that gives them reason but speaking practically that is exactly what I have done.

 

Others may say that the underdeclaration will be picked up by the Notaire during the sale, I think that is no more than wishfull thinking.

 

The seller is correct in saying that if you declare it your taxes will rise but not by much. on the basis of the few words that I have read i would say that you have an honest and communicative seller.

 

But  as ALBF has warned you, they are English [:P]

[Cendrillon]

I have sent you a private message.

[idun]

 I would always ask the DDE.

We had just over 1000m² in France and our house including terrasse used up our building limit, so we could not even extend into the loft space, which we had hoped to do.

As we kept pointing out the loft space was already there, but no, they sent it in writing...... and frankly as we knew we would be selling one day, did not want to have any problems.

People do things, au pif, that may have consequences later. In my old area,I know that the DDE were actually going from house to house at one time checking on this and fining people and sometimes making them knock stuff down, or put it to it's original use.

The Mairie, I'd never 'just' ask them, it is the local planning office who has the say so, are they still called the DDE?? Just looked and they are now calling it DDT where I used to live....... what a mad acronym that is[Www]

[alittlebitfrench]

It may sound right Chancer, it may read right, but unless it is written down (and it needs to be written down) by someone who job it is to say that it is indeed right then it is pure speculation. Hope there is no historic buildings about.

What concerns me more is the owner has gone through all this expensive renovation and suddenly decided that the house is to small. So they have spent money on notaire fees in buying the place (expensive) all the renovation (very, very, very expensive) and now going to spend more money on Nortaire fees buying another place (expensive). This house is not being gifted away. Without a shadow of a doubt the house will be well overpriced and someone (probably British) is going to get very stung. Furthermore the Notaire fees (paid by the purchaser of this house) is going to be a lot lot more than it was originally.

Scary.

[Quillan]

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"]It may sound right Chancer, it may read right, but unless it is written down (and it needs to be written down) by someone who job it is to say that it is indeed right then it is pure speculation. Hope there is no historic buildings about. What concerns me more is the owner has gone through all this expensive renovation and suddenly decided that the house is to small. So they have spent money on notaire fees in buying the place (expensive) all the renovation (very, very, very expensive) and now going to spend more money on Nortaire fees buying another place (expensive). This house is not being gifted away. Without a shadow of a doubt the house will be well overpriced and someone (probably British) is going to get very stung. Furthermore the Notaire fees (paid by the purchaser of this house) is going to be a lot lot more than it was originally. Scary.[/quote]

 

Concidering that you can't take the original price, add to it the cost of the renovations you have carried out, add a bit on top for profit and expect to sell it for that I would tend to agree unless they are taking a big 'hit' on the selling price.

[alittlebitfrench]

It is not just the renovation costs, Notaire fees are a killer too.

Interesting point to show how different France is to the UK.

Most people in France of course borrow money (like me) to buy a house. With the cost of the notaire fees and the cost of the loan you will have to live in it for at least 4 years without losing money. If you plan on living there anything less, then it is cheaper to rent. The more expensive the city/town the longer you have to live there. Lyon is 8 years.

In Paris it is 13 years. So, do you pay 2500 euros rent per month for 12 years or do you buy ?.......Notaire fees will be on a typical family flat in Paris over 50,000 euros.

Who said the housing market is cheap in France ?