Sanding and Hazardous Wood Dust

[Rich1972]

I've recently discovered that wood dust, including oak wood dust, is now regarded as a carcenogenic compound [8-)] I'm about to start preparing a 60ft oak and chestnut beamed roof for woodworm treatment, much of which will obviously involve sanding, scraping and all kinds of other methods to clean the wood up prior to treating and room partitioning.

How the hell am I supposed to keep clear of the dust????? I can wear a paper mask but I'm now thinking of wearing a proper respirator with filters. OK, so that'll work in the short-term but dust is dust and tends to get all over the place. How can I possibly contain it? If I was in my 60s I wouldn't be bothered too much but I'm 36 and don't really want to be storing up problems for 30 years down the line.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Is nothing safe these days?? [:@]

[Nearly Retired (I am now)]

I'd be more worried about the spray-on woodworm treatment.

First MDF dust was dodgy, now it's Oak - is there no end indeed. There is just so much tosh being peddled by scare mongers nowadays. And, please don't get me started on the asbestos hysteria!

[Rich1972]

[quote user="Nearly Retired"]

I'd be more worried about the spray-on woodworm treatment.

First MDF dust was dodgy, now it's Oak - is there no end indeed. There is just so much tosh being peddled by scare mongers nowadays. And, please don't get me started on the asbestos hysteria!

[/quote]

See I'm prepared for the spray-on treatment with something that resembles a biochemical warfare suit: disposable overalls, elbow length rubber gloves, goggles, filtered respirator, covers for my shoes, etc. etc. and then suddenly wood dust is being touted as second only to asbestos in terms of causing health problems through inhalation. I'm damned if I want to be togged out head-to-toe just to do some sanding, and exactly how are we supposed to contain the dust anyway? I find it all quite debilitating.

[:(]

[thunderhorse]

All I did for my beams was wear a mask and goggles. So did friends. I don't see woodworkers dropping like flies.

Perhaps, like asbestos, it needs prolonged heavy exposure over many years. Sanding beams aint gonna kill you - hopefully. [8-|]

[BIG MAC]

Maybe get em sand blasted, let someone else get grotty?

[Pierre ZFP]

Last time I did something similar I just duct-taped the nozzle of a Hoover to the sander where most of the dust was coming off.  Didn't get it all but got a lot.  I must admit that I was thinking about the mess, the hazadous properties didn't occur to me (did wear a proper mask though).

Question for you all,  when I was at school, my woodwork teacher would always correct me if I said 'sandpaper' instead of 'glasspaper'. If this is so, why is the action called 'sanding' and not 'glassing' (or is that only in Glasgow on a Saturday night?)

[thunderhorse]

Maybe it's just semantics. After all, sand is silica and glass contains silica...

[Dick Smith]

[quote user="Nearly Retired"]

I'd be more worried about the spray-on woodworm treatment.

First MDF dust was dodgy, now it's Oak - is there no end indeed. There is just so much tosh being peddled by scare mongers nowadays. And, please don't get me started on the asbestos hysteria!

[/quote]

The possible toxic and carcinogenic effects of wood dust have been known for years - don't bother with an "elf an' safety" thing, it's actually important. Woodworkers have been known to be prone to nasal cancer for a long time.

It's a serious issue with iroko, which can cause a serious allergic reaction, and some other woods can do the same.

There is a discussion on this forum, and here. There is a list of woods and their toxic effects here.

That said, in a well ventilated area and wearing a mask you should be OK for the jobs you are describing. Most of these effects are noticed after long exposures.

[tonyv]

Well, historically "sandpaper" was just that; sand glued on to tough backing paper. So "sanding" an item was the correct terminology. Sand abrasive was replaced (not sure when) by harder materials, such as glass, aluminium oxide, and silicon carbide, amongst others. However, the generic term "sandpaper" stuck to the product. "Sand" paper is no longer commercially available.

I would say that the woodwork teacher in question was a boring old pedant. Would he have used the unwieldy term "Silicon Carbide paper"? Unlikely

[thunderhorse]

But he would probably have been selective with emery paper.

[Dave&Olive]

hi ok

   Dick are you using Emery paper    ?????   you are awfull .... but i like you !!!!

   Dave[Www]

[tonyv]

Never heard of emery paper. Emery cloth, on the other hand...

I guess the generic term should be abrasive paper...

But then what if the backing's cloth? Problems, problems

[Chancer]

Emery cloth, more an engineering usage, I have yet to find it in France, mores the pity.

[Phil & Pat]

Emery board - used to do my finger nails with those... [;-)]

[Dick Smith]

Dave wrote:

 Dick are you using Emery paper    ?????   you are awfull .... but i like you !!!!

Actually I am now using a material called Abranet, made by Mirka (they make abrasives for Festool etc). It is great stuff, although expensive, lasts for ages and has a set of custom made sanding blocks which have a dust extraction nozzle!

It is really effective, perhaps too much so for softwoods, but brilliant on hardwoods. It may be the answer to the French cack brown paint!

http://www.mirka.co.uk/

[tonyv]

What did you do to your finger nails with it, Phil?

[dave21478]

I wouldnt worry too much about it to be honest. "According to research" is one of my most hated phrases these days, because it normally precedes "XXX may cause cancer"

Pretty much anything "may" cause cancer these days, but the stuff to worry about is things you may be exposed to for long periods (years) that have cumulative effects and arent flushed out by your body. Sanding your beams I would very much doubt will be anything to worry about.

Aside from cancer, the dust can be annoying. I have on of these Storm Trooper style respirators from when Im doing very dusty stuff...

 [img]http://www.recreonics.com/images2/advantage_200_respirator.jpg[/img]

I got it a few years back for a few quid from a DIY shop. Its much better than the paper mask things, and the filters are available as seperate replacements. I just blow them out with compressed air every now and then and its fine.

 

[Dick Smith]

I think that was what I said. I really don't see why you would dislike the idea of research which could find causes of disease which could then be prevented. Seems to lack thought, if I am honest. But I am beginning to see how Sunday Driver must feel...

The effects of timber dust can be serious, are well known and can cause life-threatening conditions. It is irresponsible to tell people that there is no risk. There is a risk, how each individual weighs up the risks and what actions they take are up to them.

One of the dangers is sensitisation - the main culprit seems to be iroko. The worker may have no ill-effects for years and then (having become sensitised) goes into an extreme allergic reaction. So workers with iroko should be aware of that danger.

Other timbers (such as oak) can cause nasal cancer after long exposure.

I agree that the effects are generally seen after years, but it would be safer to offer the OP some genuine advice rather than bitch about people trying to make life safer. For example, planing is safer than sanding. Scraping will be safer, too, as long as there is no lead paint involved, which can be hazardous. Hand sanding will cause less dust scatter than machine sanding. The use of something like Abranet with a dust extracter should be very safe.

[XLeblanc]

I use a product made by trend which covers your whole face so you don't get crap in your eyes either. It is however a bit expensive just to sand your beams. I think I paid about one hunderd and twenty pounds for it.

[Lilly]

Wood dust can be really nasty and has been known about for years and cabnet makers etc have long suffered the consquenses of inhaling dust. OH has a problem now to oak dust and yew due to sensitization, but know has in his work shop proper dust extraction but has a nice new Trend repiration system still in its box so that it stays clean for his new work shop!!! ( mans logic or what!!) still not to push the panick buttons  use good quality dust masks and cover up when applying wood treatments if this is a one off job and you're not going to make a living at it.

[Théière]

You can still buy sand paper Tony.

You could use a air fed mask, Trend market a couple, so must be available in France to.

[tonyv]

[quote user="teapot"]

You can still buy sand paper Tony.

[/quote]

Not according to http://diydata.com/tool/abrasives/sandpaper.php.

However, the generic term is certainly in use, and I think any vendor referring to sandpaper really means glasspaper.

However, I'll be happy to stand corrected; have you any reference to a site selling true sand paper?

[Pierre ZFP]

See, my old woodwork teacher was right after all!  Actually he wasn't a boring old pedant, he was a great teacher and I always looked forward to his lessons.  He taught me a lot of valuable skills too.

Mind you, I still call it 'Sandpaper'...... I bet he's spinning in his grave

[Théière]

Tony it goes in the botom of the budgies cage and it is definitely sand. [Www]

Ok, I concede, yes it is glass paper for wood work etc. [;-)]

[Jonzjob]

Dick, that link that you gave on the iroko is very near to my heart. I too get skin rash, sore eyes and a very painful nose when/if  do very much with it. As far as I know all of the stuff is now out of my workshop! I once thought that I was turning mahogony, it was VERY dirty when I started, and it was the greaded iroko. I was stupid enough to carry on. Bad move on my side..

I use a lot of Hermes abrasives. They do a lot for turners and it is very good quality kit. They even do what they call a slashed abrasive which is a 4 inch wide strip that has loads of cuts along the length that make it very easy to 'mould' it to different shapes on the lathe, or anywhere else too. I see that the now do something similar to Mirka http://www.axminster.co.uk/article-Avoid-the-swirl-with-Hermes-abrasives-hermesabrasives.htm . From good old Axminster, where would I be without them [8-)]!!!

The link to Mirka Abrasives looks interesting too.