Fosse Experiences

[UlsterRugby1999]

Hi all - I'm about to start installing a fosse septique in our wee project which we have recently bought. I've had the technician out from SIVEER who has given me the go ahead and the layout and been very helpful. In addition I have had bucket fulls of advice from every exPat in the area on how to do it which is all very interesting until you ask them if they have actually installed one themselves and the uniform answer is a negative one [:(][8-)][:(]

For all of you wise old owls who have, maybe you could share your experiences, not only for my benefit, but for the benefit of those yet to self install. What obvious pitfalls are there? What better methods ? Anything really which will make the installation less fraught with problems and guide me away from the dreaded "refuse".

As an example, In all the the material available that I have read it doesnt say anywhere if you tamp/whack the sand before installing the stones and upper pipe work. Not once have I seen anything on this aspect of the job. I called the technician and he, kindly, explained to me that it musnt be whacked but lightly compacted and when I suggested a light garden roller he said "Voila" in that lovely French way.

Anyway, apart from looking for guidance for me I thought it might be a worthwhile exercise seeing that many of us have had the VISIT and the TEST and FAILED and will have to install a new system in the near future.

Cheers everyone - Paul

[AnOther]

[quote user="UlsterRugby1999"]many of us have had the VISIT and the TEST and FAILED and will have to install a new system in the near future.Cheers everyone - Paul[/quote]I think (hope) that you have got that wrong.

As far as I am aware only the worst cases, such as direct discharges and those polluting waterways, will be required to take prompt remedial action. For others it is more of an advisory with no defined timetable for improvement.

[UlsterRugby1999]

[quote user="AnOther"][quote user="UlsterRugby1999"]many of us have had the VISIT and the TEST and FAILED and will have to install a new system in the near future.Cheers everyone - Paul[/quote]I think (hope) that you have got that wrong.

As far as I am aware only the worst cases, such as direct discharges and those polluting waterways, will be required to take prompt remedial action. For others it is more of an advisory with no defined timetable for improvement.

[/quote]

The SPANC Technician/Expert assured us that in our locality, virtually all the systems (older than 10 years old) were acrredited with a red X indicating that they are systems which do not conform and will be required to be changed within 3 years (I believe although not 100%) from a cut off date (2012 I believe). In our commune there we little, if any, non red x's showing on his plan of the commune and surrounding area. This, he assured us, was the norm throughout the region.

I'd be delighted to be wrong on this one AnOther honestly [;-)][;-)]

[AnOther]

2012 is I believe the date by which France is supposed to have complied with an EU directive, I can't find it off hand but have found this which broadly says the same thing.

http://www.brittany-internet.com/BrittanyNews/SepticTanks/tabid/174/Default.aspx

I read it to mean if your existing system is not considered to be polluting or a health risk then I think you will be advised on minor remedial measures but otherwise left alone. The idea that everyone would be obliged to upgrade their old but perfectly working fosse septiques to current standards by 2012  is fanciful.

[gyn_paul]

It will be a good old EU fudge.

If France hasn't complied by the end of 2012, there will simply be a re-negotiation of the compliance date. Just watch.

 

p

[AnOther]

I'm hoping so [;-)]

I've mentioned this before but not long after we bought our house (Jan 2007) we received a letter from SPANC asking us to make an appointment for an inspection. Unfortunately we 'forgot' and to date have not heard another word.

Being a late 1970's property whilst I accept that some minor improvement work might be required I have no real concerns over the state of my fosse.

[Gluestick]

Having had our SPANC inspection and passed (And the charming young man who visited - who happened to be a friend of some French friend's son - made a cursory "Inspection" I must say), I've had time to now reflect.

In another thread someone helpfully posted a webref which publishes the annual income per household for all communes: and as might be expected, ours, being an old hamlet in an intensely agricultural area, enjoys many old small terraces occupied by elderly retraites. Les actifes are circa 90: and les Retraites 200.

I had already considered "How would they afford this?" with the cost of a professional installation probably running into at least € 8.000,00........

More critically, they would not enjoy sufficient suitable terroire.

From memory it was going to be 2005 I seem to recall by which time all of Metropolitan France was supposed to be served by main drainage.

Cor! I didn't 'arf rire when I read that![:D]

A protypical French moving feast I suspect............

 

[Dave&Olive]

hi ok

                  I have put my own in  few pics here .....

            http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/daveolive/?start=80

                    Dave

[UlsterRugby1999]

Great photos Dave - and thanks for putting them up. God I couldnt do all that again I think to myself. But then I'm just starting out on this new project. Doh [:$][:)]

One observation, when did you do the fosse? We have been told that we MUST included a liner right around and under the entire sand filter system. In fact, I have bought a complete kit, which while slightly more expensive seems well worth the extra expense. We have been told that it will fail without the liner.

[UlsterRugby1999]

Most of the systems in this area are old concrete collectif (I think they are referred to) and the technician was most certain that these were not conforming.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="UlsterRugby1999"]Most of the systems in this area are old concrete collectif (I think they are referred to) and the technician was most certain that these were not conforming.[/quote]

I'm sure they don't conform..........................

Might be interesting to check the number of households in your commune (And canton) which are retired and their income.

And then ask yourself, who is going to pay for the new FSs?

The Fifth Republic?

The EU?

Errr, Greece?

[:)]

There could well be a large number of uninhabitable residences in la belle France if SPANC have their way.

[Www]

[pachapapa]

In a verttcal drained sand filter the "liner" ensures that ALL the treated effluent reports to the slotted drainage pipes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave&Olive]

hi ok

         they still sell concrete tanks ... so why do they not conform ... think you will find the size is too small  not the tank ..

          The sand filter only needs to go into a plastic bag if it`s within 35 mtrs of a well .

          posted before  but size of  tank  145 litres per person and must have room for 3 days waste  so      3 bed house  = 6 people  x 145 x 3 = 2600     nearest tank is 3000   and this needs a 25 m3 sand filter

  no need to tamp down the sand  ( if you can get away with it use 0-8 sand and not 0-4 as they recommend )

 20 - 20 gravel is a lot easier to get level than the 0- 60  they want you to use

 make sure you use Geo grille between the sand and the bottom layer of gravel  .. not the geotextile   very important

 make sure you fit a rock filter between the tank and the filter  ..do not skimp here fit a good one ..you can clog up a sand filter in as little as 10 years

 last one the slits on the filter pipes face down .... top and bottom

 just had mine emptied fitted it 5 years ago this September   and they have altered the   " Rules " a bit   so  ???

             Dave

 

[Dave&Olive]

  just a thought .... have you done a percolation test to see if you need a sand filter ....  ???

                      Dave

[pachapapa]

No tamping or whacking required, the technician is wrong, spreading evenly with a garden rake is preferable. Compaction will reduce the supply of air to the aerobic microbes that thrive in sand filter beds and purify the liquid.

It would seem to be useful to update your behind the times technician on modern practices in the Bressuire area regarding plastic sheeting and wells.[:)]

[UlsterRugby1999]

Wow guys - loads of stuff here.

1)   The technician has sent me a report which clearly shows that I must use a liner (there is a well close by and may well be within 35m)

2)   He has indicated the use of various materials and as Dave states GeoGRILLE is one of them. I bought a kit which is complete with liner, geotext, geogrille etc.

3)   The tank is a 4000L concrete type with prefiltre inside.

4)    I asked the technician about the sand as I was concerned that if I put in 700mm of the sand and then add 2 X 100mm layers of stone that while I'm walking all over it to set up the pipework etc it'll settle everywhere and, furthermore, when he tests for the depth of sand it might end up being less than 700mm. Additionally, over time surely the filter will settle leaving a depression in the ground. The filter size is 30m2. All new installations in this area (as far as I am aware) must have sand filter drainee.

 

[broy]

I believe you can be quite close to a well if you sign an attestation stating the water is not for human consumption.

Concrete tanks seem to be standard round here if its fitted by an enterprise, plastic if DIY.

[pachapapa]

The general principles regarding the 35 metres can be found in the following arrêté; http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000021125109&dateTexte=&categorieLien=id

The relevant section of Article 2 attached below;

Les installations d'assainissement non collectif ne doivent pas présenter de risques de pollution des eaux souterraines ou superficielles, particulièrement celles prélevées en vue de la consommation humaine ou faisant l'objet d'usages particuliers tels que la conchyliculture, la pêche à pied, la cressiculture ou la baignade.
Sauf dispositions plus strictes fixées par les réglementations nationales ou locales en vue de la préservation de la qualité des eaux destinées à la consommation humaine, l'implantation d'une installation d'assainissement non collectif telle que définie à l'article 1er est interdite à moins de 35 mètres d'un captage déclaré d'eau destinée à la consommation humaine. Cette distance peut être réduite pour des situations particulières permettant de garantir une eau propre à la consommation humaine. En cas d'impossibilité technique et lorsque l'immeuble est desservi par le réseau public de distribution d'eau potable, l'eau du captage est interdite à la consommation humaine.

Note that we are considering a declared well i.e. a well for human consumption; previously the distance was to any well. Some SPANCS will insist that the well is back filled as a precautionary measure. The DDASS have recently indicated in that in a "toss-up" between well and ANC, the ANC installation will get priority, thereby opening the administrative possibility of forced closure of a previously declared well.