Going rate for a French Painter & Decorator

[nemltd]

Hi,

We need our house painted in the Gers inside and out and have just received our first Devi for the Kitchen and Lounge/Diner. The daily rate is 225.00 euros, labour only.

Does anybody have any experience with this trade and does the rate sound par for the course?

Thanks

Tony

[Bob T]

Hard to say without seeing the sizes that need doing and the materials that you want. It is a bit like asking how much is a second hand car without giving any details.

[broy]

Its not excessive if its a registered, reliable, competant and fast painter but you could probably find cheaper if you're flexible on those issues.

[WJT]

It is difficult to determine whether they are good or not and it is difficult to base it solely on price but that sounds quite expensive to me. Perhaps it is a good idea to get several devis.

[Chancer]

Its reasonable for a registered artisan, they would normally charge themselves out at that and then make an indecent mark up on the materials, is it H.T. or T.T.C. ?

You might also want to discreetly ask how many hours they consider there to be in a working day.

I second the point about whether they are competent and fast.

 

[nemltd]

Hi Bob T,

Thanks for your comments, although, I am a bit confused by them. Are you saying that the room size or measurements would effect the daily rate? My mechanic has an hourly rate and it doesn't matter whether he is changing brake pads or fitting a timing-belt, the time taken to do the job changes, but his hourly rate stays the same.

Regarding the materials, the quotation did not include materials. So I don't understand where this figures in the daily rate? If the paint is £10 or £500 per pot, this should not effect the daily labour rate, should it?

If I am honest, learning that a painter and decorator earns £1000 per week is a surprise to me. I think I'll get off to college and change my career!

 

 

[nemltd]

Thanks Broy,

You seem to be saying that 225.00 euros per day is about right? If I want a decent job, in a decent time scale.

I am just surprised.

 

[nemltd]

Hi WJT,

You sound like a cool 'cat' to me.

I'm relieved I'm not alone when thinking 225.00 euros was a tad expensive per day. Obviously the credit crunch hasn't reached the South West! Supply and demand I suppose.

We seem to be a bit short on available P&D's in the Gers to be able to get a couple more quotes, might have to get the brushes out myself, heaven forbid!

[Russethouse]

 Here in the UK we have had a proper tradesman painter and decorator do work for us and numerous people who can do the job but are not qualified or so experienced.

The real professional did a better job in a shorter time but cost more - you pays your money and takes your choice as they say.

Could ask this person to do a couple of rooms to start with ? That way you'd see what their work was like.

[nemltd]

Hi Chancer and thanks for replying.

The Devis is TTC, not sure if this includes TVA or not?

Having looked more closely at the Devis, he does say his hourly rate if 25.00 euros and if it takes him less time then it will be cheaper. This begs the question that if it takes him more time....................

He has estimated 45 hours.

It maybe my fault, but I would just like to know how much it is going to cost. I maybe being a bit unreasonable? Should a guy charging 225.00 per day, a professional, be able to work out how long the job will take?

It maybe that he is 'straight as a gun barrel', and that it may only take 3 days, 675.00 euros, plus materials. Who knows?

The only consellation I have is he was recommended by a local builder that has been very good. Probably time to take a chance and see what he is like for this part of the work (Kitchen, Lounge/Diner) and then go from there.

Thanks again people.

[mint]

How long is a piece of string?

25 euros an hour TTC (yes TVA included) sounds like a bargain to me.  We have paid 40 to 45 euros per hour typically when we had works done to our house.

[nemltd]

Wise words from Russethouse.

We had a guy charging £50 per day at home in England and you are right, he took twice as long and the job was substandard.

I think I'll give the French guy the go ahead on the Kitchen and Lounge/Diner and see from there, after all said and done, he was recommended by a good bloke.

Thanks, Tony.

[broy]

I only charge 150 a day but I dont start before 11, I'm unregistered. unreliable and sloppy.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

I think it was the painter Whistler who when confronted by a women who said "$10 for an hour!!!" he said, " no ma'm $10 for a life times experience"

An artist is not paid for his labor but for his vision

[WJT]

For Broy, would you accept €135?

[broy]

Yes, but you supply lunch.

[broy]

3 courses with wine.

[WJT]

Sounds fair. Deal. [:)]

[Nick Trollope]

Don't understand any of this "estimated time" bollocks. Either he is compentant and knows how long a job will take and will give you a fixed-price devis (including materials), or he isn't and can't. There is no such (legal) entity as an "estimate".

If you don't like a devis, then you are always at liberty to get more, from someone else.

That is how it works, here.

[Richard51]

Can't you get your wife to do it?  Mine's a ditzy blonde but she did a damn good job with the old wallpapering and painting.  She also managed to get the paint and paper delivered from the UK for song and saved on that too.  She did have a few issues sanding the floor - apparently she had a few problems fitting the sanding papers tightly enough to the drum - but a few muscle building exercises will soon fix that....

Seriously though, French tradesmen (and paint / paper) are horrendously expensive so not surprised at all at the figures you quote.  I'm guessing you can't do it yourself?

[broy]

If the dizty blonde wants some work I might need a hand at WJTs place. She sounds ideal.

[nemltd]

Thanks Nick,

You have just brought some clarity to the situation.

The 'Prose & Cons' that some have posted are probably born out of the same school as the guy that provided the devi. Either incompetant to know how long the job will take or not prepared to be fair and quote what he thinks it will take, just incase he is £100 the wrong side.

You would think with 10 more rooms and the whole exterior elevations and wood work to paint the guy would see some future in quoting fairly, or conservatively. It would have secured him probably 3 months work. Then again perhaps he doesn't want it and quoted accordingly. If thats the case why not be honest and don't waste our time?

Reluctantly, I think my wife and I will be getting our brushes out.

 

 

[Angie]

Just to make you feel a bit better, we had a new house built and the cost quoted by the builder (as an extra) for painting the whole of the interior in plain white was over 12,000 euros.  We couldn't afford this and although it has taken me more than 7 weeks in total (doing a bit each day) it has cost just under 500 euros and thats using the best quality paint.  People have commented on what a good job I've done and I am pleased with the result.  A friend of ours used the same painter and decorator for 2 rooms only (lounge and kitchen), the job took 7 days and she was charged just over 1,800 euros.  Personally, although it was tedious and time consuming doing it myself, I cannot believe the figures they are quoting and would definitely begrudge paying it. 

We had a guy in UK paint the whole of the exterior of our house, windows included, about 2 years ago.  Not including the cost of the paint, he charged us £750 and did a great job over 10 days.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Steve"]

We had a guy in UK paint the whole of the exterior of our house, windows included, about 2 years ago.  Not including the cost of the paint, he charged us £750 and did a great job over 10 days.

[/quote]

Assume this man works 52 weeks per year and takes no holidays: then his average gross revenue is just £19,500. (Assumption: he works every weekday including all public holidays: which of course in practice he would not).

Now out of this he has to pay his transport costs: van or estate car big enough to carry ladders. Insurance Road Fund Tax; servicing; fuel, repairs and the capital cost and depreciation of the vehicle. Protective clothing. Telephone, etc.

Then there is his mandatory Public Liability Insurance. Then his trade indemnity. Accountant's fees for accounts and tax return filing.

Thus realistically, he would be fortunate to clear say £14,500 per annum. National Insurance and Income Tax would cost him say, £124.80 (Class 2 NIC) and £702.80 Class (IV NIC): Tax: £1,605.

Next he has to buy a pension. And if he is sensible, take insurance cover against sickness and injury contingency which prevents him from working (No such thing as Unemployment Benefit and Sick Pay for the self employed). However we'll leave these for the moment.

His Net Post Tax/NIC income is now £ 12,067.40: or just £232/week.

In France, of course, Cotisations for the self-employed are considerably higher.

My practice has always taken a very focused and pragmatic perspective when people consider Self Employment: generally, we have found after much involvement with most of the government-funded initiatives on self-employment, that potential self-employed people have a very optimistic concept of the wonders of self employment! We always make them consider such a move, by calculating exactly what they will be losing when moving from PAYE employment: such as paid holidays, sick leave, pension; all apart from the capital requirement when it's their cash on the line (And the cost of that capital) and the attendant risks.

The core realities, of course, are that in many cases of "Self Employment", the trader is automatically Benefit Dependant: which, IMHO, is a root problem with the dysfunctional UK economy, presently.

For me the old saw, "The worker is worthy of his hire!" holds true. Or more vulgarly, "If you pays peanuts: then you gets monkeys!"

BTW: the current Day Rate (Gross) for building workers in the South in UK is circa £175-225, gross dependant on trade.

As a benchmark reference, current median weekly wage (Male) is £531.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285

 

 

[ebaynut]

I would think that 225 Euros a day is a fair price. If he is charging 25 Euros an hour, I guess he is working nine hour days.

Out of this he will  have to pay for a van, fuel and repairs ( tyres, brakes and servicing etc), plus brushes trays thinners, dust cloths , insurance etc.

He may accidently knock some paint over, you would expect this put right.

He has to spend more time travelling to your place and back to his after.

Then the government "suits" (you know, the leeches who do no real work all day except shuffle useless bits of paper around) will take about 50% of his earned money.

So I guess he will be left with about 100 ish Euros for his days labour.

You think that is too much for him to earn? Do you question a solicitor or notaries' when he charges you thousands for looking at a few bits of paper and writing on them, no you don't, you shake his hand and thank him.

What is wrong with some people thinking this is too much for a painter to charge you.

Either do it yourself, don't have it done, pay someone on the black or employ someone who speaks Polish, but please don't imply that this man who you state is recommended by a very good builder and is  playing by the rules, is somehow robbing you.