Adding a balcony to an apartment

[MadameT]

Bonjour a tous

I'm new on here; hope someone can advise.

We have an apartment on the 2nd (top) floor of a small (2006) new-build

development. There are 5 apartments in all (2 on the top floor, 3 on the first

floor), all of which are holiday homes and not lived in full-time (the other

owners are all French; we are the only Brits). 

The entire ground floor area except for the stairwell/bin store etc is

owned by the local Mairie, and is used for occasional exhibitions, displays,

local club events etc. All the apartment owners and the Mairie belong to a

syndic which manages the cleaning/maintenance/insurance etc for the building.  We are on good terms with all our

co-proprietaires, although inevitably our interaction with most of them is

fairly limited as our paths don’t cross all that often.

The rear, south-west facing  windows

of our apartment look onto a rear courtyard/parking/access area which belongs

to shops/restaurants on the adjacent street. 

Above these commercial premises are several storeys of apartments whose

rear windows also look out onto the courtyard.

Two of the apartments on the first floor of our building have terraces which

also face this courtyard.

We have full-length sliding glass doors on the rear of our apartment, with a

very small Juliet-type balcony outside, overlooking the much larger terrace of

the flat below ours.  This balcony (more

of a railing, really) is too small to be of any use and in fact is so narrow

that we can’t even stand on it to clean the outside of our glass doors. 

We would very much like to be able to replace this Juliet balcony/railing

with a slightly larger, actual surface-mounted/cantilevered balcony – not very

big, say, 1m x 2m max – both to access the exterior of our glass doors and

(more importantly) to give us a small area to sit in the sun occasionally.  

Obviously we would then overlook the terrace below to a slightly greater extent,

and also - laterally, and to a similarly small extent – the adjoining terrace

on the first floor.  Nothing would be

visible from the front/street aspect.

So, really, I would like to know whether or not we would be allowed to

construct such a balcony, and if so what agreements/permissions would need to

be obtained: obviously, from our immediate downstairs neighbours, and also,

presumably, the agreement of the syndic as a whole.  Would we also require planning/building

consent from the local authorities?

[Gardian]

Nobody has answered yet, so I will, but with the usual reply.

Talk to the Mairie.

Your very detailed thread describes a situation that probably doesn't fit any of the rules. Its too small to qualify for any of the planning regs, yet potentially injurious to your neighbours  - though that never seems to be something that worries the authorities over here. Obviously, the engineering viability of what you are proposing would be of interest to all, not least yourselves.

I'd start with the Mairie, but with some detailed plans of your proposal (ideally some kind of computer-graphic of before & after). It might cost you a few quid, but if you get a cautious green light, you could use that to consult with your co-residents who you are clearly considerate of.

Nothing more to offer I'm afraid - someone else may well have more.  

    

[EuroTrash]

I feel sure you would have to put in an application to the mairie, as it would change the outside appearance of the building (even though you say nobody would see it) and also because of the privacy issue.

Once you have put the application in I guess the rest will follow - if the neighbours need to be consulted the mairie will ensure that they are.

I do just wonder though whether the reason your appartment was constructed with such a narrow balcony, was precisely for that reason, so that it doesn't significantly overlook the others. Otherwise why did the builder not build a full balcony to add value to the apartment. In which case, the chances of getting permission to alter it would not seem too good.

[NormanH]

Welcome to the Forum. I hope you will find some help here.

These are the regulations about getting a 'permis de construire' (In French, but you can do a Google translation, and anyway you are likely to need the vocabulary)

I can't see your exact case in there, but it will give a feeling for the rules and process.

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F1986.xhtml

I would also be asking the syndic, since I am pretty sure you will need an agreement from that quarter

[EuroTrash]

Or alternatively

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F17578.xhtml

as it may be a déclaration préalable that is required

[MadameT]

Many thanks - all very helpful advice. [:)]

[Sprogster]

My previous French property was a co-proprietaire and one of the things I learned is that you do not own the outside walls of your apartment or house or the land underneath as they are like the common areas owned by the co-proprietaire on behalf of all the owners.

So your first port of call should be the Syndic to find out the rules for alterations to the outside of the building, which will probably be that consent is required from all the other owners, by way of a written confidential vote at a specially called EGM.

If you get the other owners consent then it would be the Syndic on behalf of the co-proprietaire that has to apply for planning consent. You will also probably need the consent of the original architect as the apartments are new build.

[NickP]

Sorry to bring a frivolous note to what is obviously a genuine question, but I seem to remember Del Boy trying to get permission to add an extension to his high rise flat in Peckham? Well he failed, and if Dell Boy couldn't talk them in to it I wouldn't think you have any chance. Seriously  I can't see any way that the building authorities would allow a one off balcony on a block of apartments, I may be wrong ( well I was once in 1966 about 4.30 on a Saturday afternoon) [:)] for your sake I hope I am.

[Loiseau]

Maybe the way forward would be to sound out the owner of the other flat on your floor, and see if they also want to do the same. At least that would be a balanced development under consuderation. (I am assuming the apartments are side by side, each with a window overlooking the first-floor terraces below.)

Angela

[Pickles]

[quote user="Sprogster"]My previous French property was a co-proprietaire and one of the things I learned is that you do not own the outside walls of your apartment or house or the land underneath as they are like the common areas owned by the co-proprietaire on behalf of all the owners.

So your first port of call should be the Syndic to find out the rules for alterations to the outside of the building, which will probably be that consent is required from all the other owners, by way of a written confidential vote at a specially called EGM.

If you get the other owners consent then it would be the Syndic on behalf of the co-proprietaire that has to apply for planning consent. You will also probably need the consent of the original architect as the apartments are new build.[/quote]

I'm with Sprogster on this subject. Our flat is in copropriété and EVERYTHING is governed by the rules of the copropriété, a copy of which you should have been given when you purchased. In general, you do not own the outside of the building, and a change such as you are considering is actually quite a major issue. I would be VERY surprised if you did not need to get the matter voted on at either a normal AGM if you can wait that long or at a special EGM - at your cost. Just as an example, some changes require approval of 100% of the coproprietaires (not just those who turn up!) - so if just one holds out, you are scuppered. Our copropriété has pursued owners through the courts for doing "unauthorised" works (eg enclosure of a balcony with glass whilst removing the existing glass between the balcony and the lounge, thus increasing the habitable size of the apartment). Other issues that have arisen include unauthorised window frame types used as replacements, colour of shutters or awnings, etc, etc. Your first port of call should be the Syndic, closely followed by a chat with the president of your Conseil Syndical. Even if you receive permission, it is very likely that any works would have to be approved by, and carried out under the supervision of, either the original architect or a replacement appointed by the Syndic.

Do not underestimate the task that you are taking on.