sunny Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Hello,We are thinking of removing the tiles in our living and dining room, and having polished cement floors instead.a) Can we use the underlying sub-layer of cement - even it out and then add colour and polish?b) Our house is in the southwest - so any issues you thinking with cracking and moisture?c)Is there any natural breathable material alternative to get the polished cement floor effect?Many thanks for your advice.BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Why breathable? not exactly a desireable feature in most floor constructions. There are epoxy coatings available but to be honest given the choice of powerfloat or tiles..I would go for tiles everytime..different folks - different strokes I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunny Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 Thanks, BigMac.What is 'powerfloat'...and why do you prefer tiles...is it simply an aesthetic choice or are there actual benefits to tiles over cement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Roy Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Are polished cement floors exactly what they say they are, and what is the advantage of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wij5QFMImo&feature=PlayList&p=48CD87E22CF449F1&index=2&playnext=2&playnext_from=PLTiles aesthetically, easier to retro fit allows a heating matrix beneath, can be bedded on poor floors can be more colourful just preference really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote user="BP"]Thanks, BigMac.What is 'powerfloat'...BigMac after a good breakfast!![/quote]Polishing in the corners, that's what you want to ask?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 The French slang for power float is helicopter, which allowing for being upside down and having the wrong type of blade and a safety guard is pretty close to what they look like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote user="Anton Redman"]The French slang for power float is helicopter, which allowing for being upside down and having the wrong type of blade and a safety guard is pretty close to what they look like [/quote]That maybe explains the antics of the French Air Force........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunny Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Rob,We are considering polished cement for a few reasons:- The rooms have uneven walls, things sticking out (built in cupboards, fireplaces etc.) so a cement floor might give a cleaner feel than many cut tiles around the corners- Way back, the floors must have been pressed earth, so cement will be a modern play on the old feel- Might be cheaper, especially if we can use existing cement sub-floors. Also saves on floor height, which is helpful as the ceilings are not so high on the ground floor- Have seen many coloured, polished cement floors and most look absolutely gorgeous, with lots of depth and richnessThat being said, I have never done polished cement floors myself, and am a bit worried about cracks and stuff in the cold. Anyone with experience in doing this?Thanks,BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearly Retired (I am now) Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 On a picky note to start with - you probably mean concrete which is the set mixture of sand, stones of various sizes and cement powder which "glues" it all together.My only experience* is seeing that shiny grey stuff on floors of B&Q, Ikea and other warehouses. I'm sure you could colour it as there are all sorts of dyes that can be added.The problems I forsee are:1. Cracking of the surface - minimised, but probably not eliminated, by mesh or fabric reinforcement. I guess a solid sub-base is wanted too. The overall thickness has probably got to be 150mm or so.2. Consistency of colour and impossible to patch repair with any hope of a match.3. High quality of workmanship needed to get a smooth, level and consistent surface. You need a specialist.4. The mess during installation - I'm pretty sure you'd mess up the lower areas of the walls. Also quite how a smooth finish could be achieved by hand trowelling every little irregularity where the wall stones meets the floor I don't know.5. CostI wouldn't do it. *I was once involved in the laying of a granolithic finish being installed in sports changing rooms by a so called specialist. It was hugely expensive and didn't look too good at the end either. The curved "skirtings" (like upside down coving at the wall / floor junctions) for ease of cleaning or washing was neat though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegwini Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Hi BPWe have Italian 'Terrazo' on our 40 sq m salon floor. This is essentially polished stained concrete with marble slices in it. The floor was laid about 40 years ago and still looks good - in tiles, BUT I am really struggling to get someone to come & sand/buff/shine it. This is needed as where the previous owners had rugs down it is perfect, glossy, but the 'traffic'd' areas are dull. The grout is grubby too .It's stronger than tiles, quite thick, not any colder than normal tiles which are also made of something similar, probably longer lasting, but maintenance, it seems to me, is not easy - perhaps I am a bit fussy ?Still looking for someone, a specialist to come & clean/polish it - one in Vivonne/Vienne but numerous phone calls and have not yet got a devis from them!RegardsTegwini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunny Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Hi Nearly Retired and Tegwini,You both are right, and that is why I love this forum as one gets really good insights. One of the main problem, as you (and others)have identified, is getting the right specialists to do the job at a reasonable cost. Anyone has any experience with Moderne Methode Beton Cire: http://www.moderne-methode.com/html/nosprocedes.htm#bcAlso, any idea of cost of laying tiles vs. polished concrete would be very helpful (obviously the cost of tiles varies a lot, so maybe just compare labour costs...) One of my thoughts has been to remove the current tiles (these are all broken and need to be replaced) and then polish and color the concrete sub-layer. If that doesn't wear well, then I will put tiles on top. This makes sense only if it doesn't cost a bundle to even-out, polish and colour the concreteMany thanks,Bela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 BP, on the tail end of this thread, taking up the old tiles will be a task and half most likely and will damage the sub floor.The idea of polishing the sub floor is not really going to happen, you would need a concrete plane to take off the worst. You can hire from Kiloutou but the wheels are paid for by the mm of wear and you will wear them as ever you must start with the course grade and then work to fine. That is only the smoothing process. The polishing will take hours and is usually done to a fresh surface that has a hardener impregnated into the surface. Hard things polish to a better finish.If the sub floor is not hard enough it just will not work and as it was never made to be finished in the way you want unfortunately could work out really expensive to find this out even if you can find someone willing to try.Appreciate what you want, have you considered large format tiles 600x400 or bigger they would look less crowded and if the grout is chosen to match the tile instead of sticking out like a saw thumb the overall look can be excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunny Posted January 7, 2009 Author Share Posted January 7, 2009 Teapot,Ok, you have convinced me - tiles it is. Thanks to you and all the others for your comments and suggestions. [:)]BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Err its perfectly possible... walls are masked with plastic sheet (Removed once screed is set) Screed is reinforced with mesh tramped in (I have seen chicken mesh used) Internal corners are a pain but can be steel trowelled. The floor can be ground and polished with a multi head polisher then brought up with beeswax prior to masking being removed and a soft joint (Silicone seal usually) Introduced at the periphery.It can be done its just a pain to do and in my opinion not worth it.http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=453&storycode=3079896&c=2Oh and having taken a trawl around the net lo! and behold! there is a French product which does exactly what you want..It's called Beton Cire I don't know anything about it other than what is in the link.Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 [quote user="BP"]Hi Nearly Retired and Tegwini,You both are right, and that is why I love this forum as one gets really good insights. One of the main problem, as you (and others)have identified, is getting the right specialists to do the job at a reasonable cost. Anyone has any experience with Moderne Methode Beton Cire: http://www.moderne-methode.com/html/nosprocedes.htm#bcAlso, any idea of cost of laying tiles vs. polished concrete would be very helpful (obviously the cost of tiles varies a lot, so maybe just compare labour costs...) One of my thoughts has been to remove the current tiles (these are all broken and need to be replaced) and then polish and color the concrete sub-layer. If that doesn't wear well, then I will put tiles on top. This makes sense only if it doesn't cost a bundle to even-out, polish and colour the concreteMany thanks,Bela[/quote]Ah ha, BP has found the product themselves, as the link didn't work I did not check it out, Appologies BP.The product looks good, why not contact them direct and see if they have installers in your area? I would like to know about how you get on that looks good [:D]http://www.moderne-methode.com/html/nosprocedes.htm#bc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunny Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 [quote user="BIG MAC"]Err its perfectly possible... walls are masked with plastic sheet (Removed once screed is set) Screed is reinforced with mesh tramped in (I have seen chicken mesh used) Internal corners are a pain but can be steel trowelled. The floor can be ground and polished with a multi head polisher then brought up with beeswax prior to masking being removed and a soft joint (Silicone seal usually) Introduced at the periphery.It can be done its just a pain to do and in my opinion not worth it.http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=453&storycode=3079896&c=2Oh and having taken a trawl around the net lo! and behold! there is a French product which does exactly what you want..It's called Beton Cire I don't know anything about it other than what is in the link.Good luck [/quote]Thanks, BigMac. Back in a quandary again [8-)] The article you sent seems to indicate a cost of 5,000 euros (not sure about the floor size)...Hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 BP - where did you see the polished cement floors you are talking about ? I must say, in 20 years I have never seen one here. However, we had our tuffeau windowsills redone in white cement which is far harder wearing than replacing the damaged tuffeau. (the French often cover tuffeau sills with zinc which we weren't keen on). The finish is very fine and certainly doesn't crack in the cold and I assume your inside heat is generally above freezing ???!Provided you have a damp proof membrane under the cement, you should have no problem with a damp floor. Then there are all sorts of sealers available to stop the dust that cement inevitably makes. The I imagine you can just polish over the top. You can also buy stains to colour the cement, or you just try to find one of the coloured sands. We used a red-gold sand with lime and a dash of white cement in our grouting and the colour is stunning and matches the old render on the outbuildings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunny Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Callie,I have seen cement/concrete floors, kitchen counters, bathroom counters in Asia and the US. The floors are the most stunning - often with a richness and depth I have not seen in any other type of floor. But the caveat is that I have seen this in warm climates - not that it hasn't been done elsewhere, it is just that I haven't seen it. Your sills sound lovely. Best,BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I have seen the polished concrete floors in many of the French interior design magazines so I do think they are quite popular here. In fact, when I first was investigating a new floor for an old bread oven to convert I enquired about doing something similar. There was an English fellow in Dordogne that advertised doing just this as well as using patterns that made it appear as stone. It doesn't sound nice but some of the examples given on his website were very pretty. However, most of his work at that time was for exteriors and his cost was very reasonable.In the end we had to have the floor and concrete base dug up and I had stone tiles laid on top. I will do a search and see if I can locate his information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I'm not certain but I think this may be him. It appears they are mainly still specialising in exteriors. However, if it is the same he said no problem at all for an interior and you have many choices.http://www.dallage-decoratif.com/motifs_dallage_decoratif.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunny Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 [quote user="WJT"]I'm not certain but I think this may be him. It appears they are mainly still specialising in exteriors. However, if it is the same he said no problem at all for an interior and you have many choices.http://www.dallage-decoratif.com/motifs_dallage_decoratif.html[/quote]Many thanks WJT. Will contact this firm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachapapa Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Sometimes one finds absolutely fascinating websites full of interesting and helpful information. The "hardworkinghippy", "La ferme de Sourrou" is a favourite for pretty well everything ecological and practical; including hand made carrellage for floors and terraces.http://www.flickr.com/photos/hardworkinghippy/299430354/http://lafermedesourrou.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubborngirl Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I'm so happy to have found this forum: can somebody please tell me what stained concrete is in French? My husband (French) and I are renovating. We have a new concrete slab for our open-plan kitchen and lounge and I finally convinced him to finish the concrete instead of tiling but now he thinks I mean beton cire, which is more like polished concrete, and not much cheaper than tiling, as it really needs to be done by a professional. I want to stain the concrete and I want us to do it as I see that loads of people in US and elsewhere have done with good results. Can anyone help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Guerriere Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 There was an article on "System D" last year on polished concrete floors, here is the reference, but you will probably need to order a back copyhttp://www.systemed.fr/articles,Go,ArtId,3663.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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