TreizeVents

Just had double glazing put in.  The old windows were removed so that they are perfect.  I agree its a shame to chuck em.  A friend who is a retired builder uses them to make makeshift greenhouses.  We are giving them to him.   Emmaus would also be a good destination.  Save one or two and make a cold frame with them and a few bricks.  I keep meaning to do this.

[quote user="Suninfrance"] OH's income is his Incapacity Benefit. Because OH receives Incapacity Benefit, will his E106 continue as long as he receives IB? Just can't get my head around it. Jan [/quote] Hi Jan, I have incapacity benefit from Britain.  Because of that, and a low income, I get 100% coverage through being apart of the French health system.  You might even qualify for the incapacity benefit from the French instead of the Brits, if you can pass the French tests.  They are strict.  Otherwise, just tell the French CPAM you are incapable of work in Britain, show them the papers and it should eventually work out.  No idea how a E106 fits in, join the French health system.

[quote user="RumziGal"] Just like France, then!  [:)] At the moment we have one doctor in our village of 2000 souls.  We are part of France's 8th largest city, yet our nearest A&E is 20km away, and ALL our contacts with Montpellier hospitals have involved long waits and rude staff.  I truly dread the prospect of needing to go there again.   [/quote] I live in the same area as Rumzi, although not such a small village so far from Montpellier.  I have only used the emergency service in our small town of 6,500, not in Montpellier.  An excellent service, 24/7, although like most French businesses, staff could use a bit of formation on treating people like the people who pay their wages, instead of slight nuisances.  The speed at which things happen in that clinic is quite amazing.  So far.  But our mayor battled for the place.  Maybe Rumzi needs a more pro-active mayor. I also go into the big city hospitals in Montpellier for more regular care, more often than I would like.  I have had one complaint about one doctor, and one other who could use a little "be nice to people" training.  Otherwise the ambulance service, the drugs given according to need not cost, the number of nurses, the food, the rooms and the level of care is streets above what I had in the UK, for both the nephrology and gastroenterology  side.  The CHU hospital in Montpellier is tops in France according to the official rankings, and France is tops in the world.  There is data and experience other than personal ones, looking at the rankings.  Mind you, one can complain about the rankings too.  Back to personal experience.  My general reaction to French doctors and nurses is that they are as good as the UK ones, but everything else around orthodox medical care is loads better and better funded.  Alternative medicine is another story entirely.  I suppose it does not matter to most of you who seem to have no serious ongoing medical problems requiring hospitalisation, but the wards in the UK are a nightmare.  Here, it is against the law to have more than one other patient  in your en suite room.  I usually am alone.  For "real patients" that makes a huge difference.  People who come from the UK can't believe there ARE NO WARDS in France.   I do admit that as in the UK, I take an active patient line, as all the medical personnel can make mistakes. As for the private public waffles, in France the difference is negligible. I can never go to a private BUPA place in the UK, and if I use a private place here, all is transparent, I sometimes don't even know it is private.  I don't even need to ask.  It all works.  Obviously those of you who choose to live in the middle of nowhere are not going to get great care.  For one thing most doctors don't like to live in the middle of nowhere.  And unless there is tax base, who exactly is going to pay for the great hospitals for no one much. And Will, you have alluded to this “bankrupt” nature of the French system more than once.  What exactly do you mean and where exactly did you get this information?  I would like to check it out.  Are you saying that because the government chooses not to fund  the system, and therefore it is "losing money", this means it is bankrupt?  And if like a normal company, the health system is deeply in debt or bankrupt, do you think they will shut it down and sell off all the assets?  Many countries are also "in debt", some like the USA are way in debt.  France is in debt.  Does this mean much?  Not really.  What difference is there for you between being bankrupt and not getting enough government funding?  I genuinely don't get your point.

It is great to have feedback on the responses, thanks.  As with most "social science" questionnaires there are usually very few surprises.  That seems to be the case here.  Although we don't know how representative the sample is, I guess we can discuss without worrying about that.  For example, the response that always attracts me is "other".   One surprise for me is the answer to the question " Which of the following reasons would be important in your decision to settle in France?"   Unlike nearly all other kinds of immigrants to a strange country, NONE, not one, of the Brits admit that being near other Brits is important.  NONE.  Not one.  And also NONE of the responses say that the choice of home would have anything to do with being near Brits. Given all the other kinds of immigrants and their patterns, which we know from France, Britain and America (for example), how can this be so?  What makes these British immigrants so utterly unanimous that having other Brits around the place is anything whatever to do with their choices?  Is it true?  Do no Brits whatever want to have the company of those who speak their mother tongue and share a cultural history?  Turks often live together.  Chinese famously have Chinatowns.  In America every set of immigrants has their own area before they begin to spread out a bit.  I need not mention the clustering of immigrants in Britain.  In France, well, you don't get a lot of African immigrnats in the countryside, they go to cities.  Maybe its just that most Brits don't work or are unlikely to.  Maybe they are all just a bit richer than most other immigrants.  Other immigrants all want help from their people, countrymen or fellow villagers who have been there before and know the ropes.  I find it terrifically interesting that NOT ONE Brit says that having  other Brits around has anything to do with their choice.  Maybe the answer is so obvious I am missing something.  How can the Brits in France be so different to every other set of immigrants.  And we know that once Brits arrive, they do tend to have just a few more British freinds than the average French person.  Don't we? Mind you, the 2.4%, which might mean one response, never visited France before moving here.  Strange.  And not one single response says they would like to live in a city.  That's really weird, in my mind.  I know there are Brits in cities.  Not a big surprise that only 7.3% want to live in a town, although I do.

I went to a gathering today, of many nationalities.  I was speaking with a British woman who has been here 18 months.  She said she had heard twice, and was repeating to me as a fact, that there were 2,000 Brits living in Lodeve, a town about twenty-five minutes from the gathering and fiftenn from where she lived.  The total population of the town is 7,500.  There are, in the phone book, 45 names which are obviously Britsh.  That's quite a bit, as our town away has only 14 and is nearly as big.  So there are more Brits there, one reason I thought of moving there.  But can you imagine that there could possibly be 2,000, nearly a quarter of the population?  No way.  And this is how rumours begin.  She believed it, and insisted even when I told her about my phone book research, she desparately looked for possible explanations as to how 45 pohne numbers could result in the population of 2,000.  The person who said that there must be a crucial percentage of "outsiders", or "the other", before local people get rattled was right.  One or two "others" are just interesting neighbours, or people you don't know.  Usually there are no problems.  Immigrants are happy, accepted by locals, make a few friends, everything is peachy.  When 10 or 20 "others" move into an area, and you can see them everyday on the streets (especially if skin colour is helpful for identification), people notice and begin to comment.  And when the numbers get into the 3-5% area, then you get problems.  But long before that, the tiny numbers, the half a percent or one percent, turns into a "huge invasion" in the mind of local people.  Its like that quite often.

[quote user="Teamedup"]It is an anathema to me that people move abroad to somewhere full of their compatriots. I realise that it isn't especially a british thing, most people's do it, I wouldn't and simply do not like the thought of it. [/quote] Hi Teamed Up, It is important to look at the history and patterns of immigrants everywhere to realise that what the Brits do, what you don't like much, is totally normal and utterly understandable.  Think of the immigrants to America, or Britain.  Do you think that an immigrant who might not know the language, the food and the culture of another country would voluntarily move into an area where none of their compatriots are.  No way.  They move into neighbourhoods with a few or many of their own folks, start food and goods stores with products from the home country and gradually over a few generations things change.  Although to this day there is a Chinatown and a Little Italy in New York, just to give one example.   They help each other out, construct defenses against the native folks (who usually make some kinds of attacks eventually), help each other understand the strange ways of the dominant culture, and generally try to make thier way in the new land.  Think of the Turks, the Irish, the Maghrebins, the Pakistanis, the Gujaratis, the Chinese .... and the Dordogne.  Not to mention the difference between the older immigrants, and their children who might be raised in the dominant culture.  But you still get people wanting to live with their own people, speak their own language and eat their own food.  What on earth is not totally understandable about that?  What's not to like about it?  The French have such a strong thing against it with their total suspicion of communitarism. The people I think are dreamers and unrealistic are those that think that the French actually will allow anyone to be really truly integrated  if they are not "really French".  No way.  Unless maybe you speak French totally and your partner is French, then maybe.  Otherwise, immigrants everywhere act the same.  Mostly.  I concede in advance there are exceptions, but not many. By the way, if you think of people as immigrants, rather than "moving abroad", it will help clarify things.[I]

Vous ressemblez à Leila Bouachera    56% 2/ Dominique Voynet            56% 3/ Olivier Besancenot            52% 4/ Corinne Lepage                48% 5/ Antoine Waechter             48% 6/ Robert Baud                    44% 7/ Marie-Georges Buffet        44% 8/ François Bayrou               44% 9/ Ségolène Royal                44% 10/ Jean-Marc Governatori     40% 11/ Nicolas Dupont-Aignan      40% 12/ Nicolas Sarkozy               40% 13/ Yvan Bachaud                36% 14/ Nicolas Miguet                36% 15/ Philippe de Villiers            32% 16/ Frédéric Nihous            32% 17/ Michel Baillif                   32% 18/ Jean-Philippe Allenbach    32% 19/ Lucien Sorreda            28% 20/ Jean-Marie Le Pen        20% 21/ Arlette Laguiller            16% Sadly my favourite candidate, Jose Bove was not even on the list.  What kind of poll is this anyway?  Also there is a Troskyist, rural mayor who has all his signatures as well, George Schivardi, he's not on the list either.  Not that I would vote for him. The more interesting question is why the French don't allow us who pay taxes, who have only one house and one car (both French), one health system, and just plain live here, to vote.  In America they had a revolution about that, "No taxation without representation".  Not exactly like us, but we should be able to vote.  Only Jose Bove would allow that.

Hey Chris, Who was number one on your lis?

[quote user="Will"] The following were taken into account: corporate income, personal income, wealth tax, employer social security, employee social security and VAT/Sales taxes. [/quote] Thanks for looking this up.  That means that the rating given is totally useless for any one of those kinds of taxes and for any one family or individual.  I would much prefer to see a rating for taxes as they effect poor people, middling people and well off people.  Others might like to see how taxes affect small businesses.  Others might like to know about taxes and retired people.  I really love tables, but you have to check what they mean, and not just publish overall figures composed of complicated information collated in some intricate way.   Just allows people who move to or live in France to continue to moan about taxes, while rather enjoying all the fringe benefits they bring. The other thing that woud be good would be to campare that table with some other information like life expectancy, or GNP per capita, or literacy rate, so see waht the effect of high or low taxes might be.  Then things get interesting.

[quote user="RumziGal"]- If schools are secular, how come they get taught the Nicene Creed? - Why do sports teachers still teach them to do sit-ups with their legs out straight? - What have they got against computers?  In 4ème (age 13-14) they do a bit of "computing" in Techno, i.e. how to open, edit, and save a Microsoft Word file. [blink] Yes, really, that is ALL!  Otherwise they're a complete no-no. - Why do the government keep cutting educational posts? - Why do the teaching staff not really care?   The yearly strikes are just part of everyone's expectations now, and make no difference to anything, especially considering how few teachers actually strike. [/quote] Its always a problem teaching about sex, politics and religion.  Or even talking about them at dinner parties.  Hard to get the balance right.  If your kid learned a couple of sutras, the Four Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path, and what is the Middle Way AND a couple of chapters from the Koran, the Five Pillars of Islam, the actual meaning of jihad and what the difference was between Sunni, Sufi and Shia, then I guess you can't complain about the Nicene Creed.  If he or she did not learn about those other religions, maybe even doing a little meditation, then I think you have every right to complain. For that matter why do they not teach crunches instead? The French, in general, are way behind in most computer teaching and provision.  When I learned that there were about 200 computers at the University in Montpellier, for maybe 20,000 arts and science students, I got the general idea.  They really are way behind.  Some get the good stuff, most don't. Why do they keep cutting nearly everything and selling it off to private firms who cut even more.  The answer is that they are learning to join the modern world, where the market and money determines all.  Fortunately there are areas of resistance and public services are not completely privatised and chopped.  And if they cut, they can cut taxes for the rich and even the well-off classes, so they can consume more privately.  Its not just teachers, its also the support staff. As for teachers who don't care, I wonder if that is a peculiar French problem.  Would anyone say that British schools are full of teachers who care.  Some do, some don't.  Like plumbers and lawyers and bank clerks. 

I have also PMed you with more information.

[quote user="Jc"]Can't your hospital in the UK make any recommendations or even the charity DIABETES UK.[/quote] In my experience, very few if any of the specialists in Britain or France have any idea, in any useful specific sense, about what goes in the other country.  That may sound odd, but it seems to be true.  It is pretty much up to the patient to do the research.  This will give you the contact in each area you need to check out.  http://perso.orange.fr/fnair2/regions.htm You could also try asking a question on the FNAIR forum.  Maybe you can ask in English and someone will respond.  http://perso.orange.fr/fnair2/forum.htm  I don' t know how well you speak French, but in my view, you should really think very hard before you use kidney care in France without speaking French.  You can get lucky, but there is no guarantee and you will miss crucial information and not know you have missed it, if your French is poor.  Imagine that you would speak pidgeon English and try to figure out what is happening in an English hospital. From all I know, the kidney care in France is very much better than in England.  

 I would also be keen to see what you all say.  I am still on an ordinary ADSL connection from Orange/Wanadoo.  It works, it is reliable, never have any trouble.  But of course I don't get free phone calls or TV channels, and it costs more.  I have been totally afraid to change anything, since the nightmare stories I hear seem to make it not worth the bother.  For me its most important to have reliability and good help line if needed.  I really don't care about a bit of extra speed as I never do films or music, just email and surfing.  As I am about to get a new computer I might have to make a decision.  It is totally beyond me how these people get way with selling a product that is such a bother.   And since they don't really exist, and hire as few people as they can, there is nowhere to turn.  They should be jailed, from some of the stories I hear.  I shall watch the responses with great interest.  My advice is to by a simple fast connection without a phone deal and without TV channels and just be happy with it.  Although it would be nice to ring people for free [:D]...and the sports on TV....[:-))]

For a quick look at what the pollsters say http://www.liberation.fr/actualite/evenement/evenement1/237633.FR.php There was superb article that accompanied this quick summary, with graphics of the poll results for the past month.  They vary quite a bit.  The support for Bayrou is seen as very changeable.  Its too late at night for me to summarise the poll results.  What people might do in the second tour is really so far beyond our reality, one should really ingore it.  My reading of the polls is that nothing has really happened yet.  The big two are still way in the lead.  Bayrou has grown bit by bit, but is way behind.  Le Pen has not moved much at all, and declined a bit if anything.  Keep in mind that nearly 20% of the voters have not decided.  And that the percentage who say they could easily change is half.

[quote user="Sprogster"]LONDON! With a French population of over 300,000 London is now apparently the seventh largest French City in terms of numbers of French nationals. [/quote] Can I be a little critical and ask where you got that data?  [:D] I also note that you might be speaking of a narrow definition of French "city".  My data says that there are 18 agglomerations in France that are over 290,000 population.  For example, the "city" of Montpellier has 244,000 and the Agglomeration has about 400,000, according to the Agglomeration of Montpellier (although not according to the data cited below).  I do accept that most of the French live in London.  And that there are more of them now than there were some time ago.  And that they are young and want to make loads of money as fast as possible and then go back to France.  Just a small point.  [Www] But it is nice to cite sources so we can check out how reliable they are.  As most of us know, the notion that there is an accurate count of Brits in France and French in Britain might be a bit of an illusion, given current laws and how people avoid them.  http://www.citypopulation.de/France-Agglo.html#Stadt_gross http://www.citypopulation.de/France.html#Stadt_gross

Hi TU, I suppose we all know that for many years, long before CMU, many countries had bilateral agreements with other countries concerning health care (as well as travel insurance of course).  With the advent of mas travel, I guess it seemed dumb that every time someone got ill or injured on holiday they would be flown home to get treatment.  So having benefits, health care in more than one country is not really that new.  It had to happen with mass tourism, when more than the "well off" began to travel far away.  I think your take in the first few lines makes more sense than seeing it as a "benefit".  It was invented specifically to include the poor, rather than to exclude them. I agree with our puzzlement about it covering all health care now.  Maybe there are people on the list who think that if somoene is poor they don't deserve medical care.  I don't know.  There was  guy on another list who would call the poor "losers", and be quite happy for them to just die.  Maybe there are poeple who think that water and air and health and education are something you should pay for individually, that they are not common goods.  I meet all kinds of wierdos who think that the market should rule everything, especially amongst well off Brit expat/immigrants.

Leaving aside a few British immigrants who are taking advantage of the law or flagrantly breaking it, I am sure some of you realise that there are nearly two million French people who drive without insurance, or without a permit de conduire or talking on their mobiles or having drunk way over the limit.  These are the more serious problems in this country not a few expat-immigrants who, as is pointed out by many, are doing the same kind of thing they would do in Britain, cheating and getting away with it.  No legal system is perfect.  But the French and their flagrant disregard of the law on speeding, in drinking, on licenses, on insurance, and on parking wherever they fancy, is a far bigger problem than a few Brits.  Open your eyes folks.  I am not saying there are not British cheats and crooks, but that there are far more French ones, and the French penchant for disobeying or cheating on the rules is cuturally more deeply embedded than in Britain.  As for CMU and RMI, I read all the posts carefully and noticed that very few people seem to have any personal expereince with this, that is, very few of you posting seem to actually be poor.  I just thought I  would notice, that's all. 

Hi Katy, How's your French?  How's your knowledge of French law and legislation in the areas you know about in the UK?

Hi Owen, You seem to find it absurd or that an illegal immigrant would be taken care of by the state, if they fell ill.  That is, taken care of by my tax money which funds the state care.  I find that entirely reasonable.  You find it absurd.   Alors?  What then would you do with this illegal immigrant, of some age and gender and family situation, who became ill?  Or maybe got run over by a car.  Or fell a few floors in his illegal construction work.  Send them back to somewhere immediately while they were ill or injured?  What would you do?  Rememberig of course that in the press illegal and legal are simple terms, but in reality the apply to complex cases and actual people.  According to you, the "absurd" French system would look after them. Is this your biggest and most important criticism of the "absurdity" of French health policy?  Doesn't seem that big a deal to me.  In fact, I would rather turn my attention to the other side of the chain and figure out how the big drug manufacturers can be dealt with more effectively in our interests, instead of turning huge profits for not much work on problems that make loads of money and almost no work on problems that might not be profitable. I noticed that you have not yet really responded to any of my original quetions, some of which were for simple information.  Stuff I simply don't know and thought you might know about, given your business.  And some of which were because I disagree with you, and want to find out what you think except for "absurd". You can answer either kind.  I get very upset during arguments, so maybe just answer the ones that are for simple information. What would "full private health insurance" mean in the French context? I actually don't know what it means. Where would they get their care?  In the same facilities?  And why would they not want the French "national" insurance? Who would calculate the rate?  And on what basis?  I actually don't know the answer. And who would benefit from "full private health insurance"?  The poor?  The just above CMU level entitlement?  The people at 1500-2000 euros a month?  Or the easy class?  Why would anyone want to tamper that much with what your corporate web site claims is the best health service in the world (not counting the complex bureaucracy)? All the best,

I am slightly offended, but not surprised, that Owen seems to think that Liberte means, or used to mean, or should mean that someone should be able to buy whatever product they want if they have the money.  Even in this day of commodification of nearly everything and a (false) "free market" mentality driving the world into disaster, there are still restrictions on what you can buy and sell in civilised countries.  And thank goodness for it.  In my mind, and to my understanding, there is not a lot of equality, nor fraternity nor liberty in North Korea.  It is an elitist dictatorship where a few rich people control the rest by means of military force and political power.  It has nothing to do with liberty, equality or fraternity.  Its a place run by thugs.

Society for People who don't use Post-its Society for People who say, "Its easy, you just...... " Society for People who think they are not Immigrants but Expatriates Society for People who think that owning two houses is not being well off.

[quote user="Dick Smith"]I'm certain that any society I formed wouldn't accept me as a member. [/quote] Surely Groucho deserves a bit of credit for that, Dick?

[quote user="Owen"]Hello, I think some of you are missing a fundamental point. The CMU legislation, whilst well meaning, is daft.. As far as abuse by the apparently wealthy is concerned (in fact in many cases they are simply obeying the daft law) it is going off at a tangent. Not only is it stupid, it is certainly against the spirit of EU law to make full private health insurance illegal. So why not simply repeal,, or at least modify, the law? After all it would be a measure to relieve the burden on the state. Very simple. If a government can restrict the freedom of an individual in their choice of healthcare provision, and under pain of fines and imprisonment if they do not comply, they are not going to give up this option. even for the sake of millions of Euros. Regards Owen [email protected][/quote] Hi Owen, What would "full private health insurance" mean in the French context?  Where would they get their care?  Who would calculate the rate?  And who would benefit?  The poor?  The just above CMU?  The people at 1500-2000 euros a month?  Or the easy class?  Why would anyone want to tamper that much with what your web site claims as the best health service in the world (not counting the complex bureaucracy)?  And you must be careful about advertising your private company by putting your website on the post, people have been reprimanded for advertising for their business.  Yours being private health care I suppose.

In case you have not found the answer elsewhere, I know someone who received incapacity benefit before they came to France, for a long duration illness.  She has continued to collect incapacity benefit in France for five years without any trouble whatsoever.  She even told me once that they people in Newcastle are really nice to deal with on the phone.  She is retired.

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