Woodburner necessitates annual decoration

[Bonnie]

I have an Invicta woodburner which was installed by a reputable company about 10 years ago.   Since then I've learned to live with the filth it creates as par for the course but a friend has pointed out that it should not be exuding this dirty air and that it may be fitted incorrectly.   Indeed, he is concerned that it may be chucking out poisonous fumes.

I have to decorate the ceilings every year, and also the top half of my living room (down to the point where the colour matches).   There are vents on either side of the chimney breast which have soot stains.

I have asked in my nearest Castorama but they said this was normal.   My friend has asked in the UK and was told that it is possible that the chimney flue is not connected to the flue or that the side vents are not properly connected.

Can someone please advise if there is an independent company who can look at my installation?  I did ask an Invicta salesman to come out (last year) and he just walked up and down and drew a pretty picture, said he would send a report and didn't!

I'm in the Lot et Garonne and quite close to Agen.

Bonnie

[BritinBretagne]

What does your chimney sweep say? If the flue is not attached he/she would know.

[Bonnie]

He hasn't said anything - just whistles while he works!

[NickP]

Please get a professional in to check this immediately what you describe is not normal, no matter what a numpty in Castorama says. It may not be the chimney, sometimes the plates or seals that make up the stove can distort through the heat over the years. Also get a carbon monoxide alarm, they are cheap, easy to stick to the wall and could save your life. Once again please get this checked out properly it is not NORMAL.

[NickP]

Bonnie , when you get someone to look at your stove ask for a smoke test on the stove as well as the chimney. A real professional shouldn't need asking. Unfortunately, we are too far away from you to recommend our stove specialist. Please do not ignore the signs you describe, to do so could be fatal.

[Bonnie]

Thanks Nick,

I wanted confirmation that this is not normal before I go to any expense just to get a negative answer.   Just goes to show that the manufacturers (Invicta) and sellers (Casto) haven't got a clue.

I have been using a carbon monoxide alarm for the past 2 years almost at floor level as I believe that CM is heavier than Oxygen.

Now then, you suggest I get a "professional" to check it out.   Can you advise please?   I don't see any point in going to an agent like Godin, Invicta I have tried, so would it be just a heating engineer/fitter?   Can you offer a phrase I can look for please?

You also mention a "smoke test"...... can the usual sweep do this?   Presumably the stove would have to be working to be tested?

[Théière]

As Nick said, very worrying. Is this a stand alone stove or built in?

Room air should always be separate to combustion air so no soot should be anywhere in your room.

[Bonnie]

Hello Theire,

It's an Insert with 2 fans which come on automatically when the temperature gets up.  There is a booster if I want extra but it's noisy.   I don't have any filters to change.   Should there be filters in the side vents in the chimney breast?

[NickP]

No, Bonnie, the stove doesn't have to be working to do a smoke test, they would put a smoke canister in the stove. I'm not sure about a "sweep" doing this you need a proper company. Not giving this name for advertising just to show you what a proper Chaufage company would look like: Dahuron Vendome, this is the company who installed our Wood burner, sweep the chimney every year and service our oil-fired boiler. http://www.dahuron.fr/ Just to make it clear I have no financial connection with Dahuron, I'm just a very satisfied customer.

[andyh4]

Carbon monoxide is very slightly lighter than air.

Having your detector near ground level is probably not a big problem but an ideal position would be higher up.

[idun]

Firstly, I shall tell you about our Turbo Fonte chiminee that we had in France.

Fitted by so called professionals, but needed redoing, refitting later. However, there was a design fault and one had to open the door to get to the clapet lever that opened and closed the clapet, and so when the fire was going, if we opened the door, we often got smoke coming straight into the room. My husband remodelled the system so that the clapet could be adjusted from the side of the chimney without opening the door. Our problems with smoke and dust more or less stopped then, as we would open the clapet completely and let the fire draw/blaze before opening the door. But sometimes we would forget[:$], but in general that worked.

Also do you have a liner or does your fire just go up into say a brick chimney????

We have two wood burners, with heavy duty liners in the UK and we only burn very dry wood, we open the clapet before opening the door and we don't have problems. However when we first got our fires, we did get smoke in the rooms because the wood was not kiln dried and smoked and even opening the clapet would not get it drawing enough to prevent smoke coming into the rooms.

I redecorated a couple of years ago and the rooms are fine after two winters.

No, you should not be having these problems. Needs looking into.

[Bonnie]

OK Nick - I understand what you are saying about Dahuron.  They seem to be a large company with many specialist trades.   I'm still not sure what to look for here though - heating engineers?   Woodburner specialists?   I don't think there is an equivalent down here.  I've no intention of replacing my present one but I certainly would be interested in a smoke test.

Andyh4 - I can always get a second and place it higher up.

Idun - thanks for your contribution.   Is the clapet lever the swivel knob I use to close the exit to the chimney above?   If so, I understand.   The chimney does have a liner.   The fire used to be open when I bought the property so everything was there before the insert was fitted.   I usually buy the wood in April, or around Easter so it has a long period of drying before my first fire which tends to be in December as I use paraffin heaters in the interim.

Thanks to everyone so far - I feel I'm getting somewhere

[NickP]

Just to back up Andy's comment. When we first arrived in France and the Pompiers called at Christmas to sell their calendar, I asked about positioning the alarms, their advice was, Smoke alarm high as possible CM alarm slightly lower. Our house is an old barn, so large open plan room with a wide staircase, and an upstairs with a cathedral roof. We placed the smoke alarm as near to the roof as possible and the CM alarm slightly lower, both directly above the top of the stairs. I hope this helps.

[BritinBretagne]

You wrote that you thought that the flue might not be attached, your sweep would know for sure if it was. Obviously you prefer making jokes to following advice.

[Théière]

[quote user="Bonnie"]

Hello Theire,

It's an Insert with 2 fans which come on automatically when the temperature gets up.  There is a booster if I want extra but it's noisy.   I don't have any filters to change.   Should there be filters in the side vents in the chimney breast?

[/quote]

I thought it was but safer to check.  No, no filters. The warm air chambers should be completely separate from the combustion chamber. Personally I don't like the older Invictors as I have repaired the in-laws too many times. It could be a failed seal (fire rope etc) causing combustion air to escape into the warm air chambers. A pro needs to take a look but a sweep won't have enough between the ears to diagnose the problem.

CO alarms are best at the height you sit/lie down at. if you lie on the floor so be it [:)]

When you purchase your wood, they should be able to tell you how long it's been air drying and it needs to be around 2 seasons but better than that buy a wood moisture meter and check it, dryer the better but definitely lower than 20% moisture.

For an idea of how the flue should be;

http://www.poujoulat.fr/fr/nos-solutions/maison-individuelle/ameliorer/distribution-air-chaud/confort-puisage-hotte

[idun]

Sorry yes, that is the clapet. And as it was a word I only ever needed to learn in France, and we all speak french at home, obviously have never learnt the english version............... can anyone tell me please????

I have just looked it up and it said, 'valve' but frankly that is not what I consider it to be, surely there is a different name for it other than valve????

[BritinBretagne]

Even a thick sweep would know if the liner is attached. The same thick sweep would know that it was not usual to have to decorate the living room every year because you have a malfunctioning woodburner.

[Bonnie]

Thanks Nick.   I'm in a basic bungalow with a converted loft so I haven't your scope of problems. I think I'll be fine with just 2 at different levels.

Theiere, will a pro have to take out the whole thing?   Sounds like you have experience of fixing these beasts - they are incredibly heavy!   Sweeps tend to work on their own so I can't see one man doing this job anyway (in spite of being light-headed!).

I believe my wood is quite "fresh" when I buy it - he's a local chap down the road so I see his log deliveries every so often.   He has massive machinery on his site so I've seen the operation of picking up a log, placing it in a splicer and chopping it up.   It is then dropped into his open van where he measures the weight - max 5 stieres at a time.   Oh - do you mean 20% moisture when I come to burn it or when it is delivered in the Spring?   I think that wood can sometimes be too dry and therefore has little calorific value?   Your diagram is exactly like mine but without the distribution.

Idun - I would actually call it a folding flap rather than a valve but it does the same thing and I know what you mean.

[idun]

Yes, flap sounds right.

We had wood in France that must have been on our wood pile for quite a number of years and we found that the dryer it was he better it burned and gave off very little smoke. I have never seen wood that was too dry.

We have a wood moisture meter too, handy thing to have.

[cajal]

[quote user="Bonnie"]

Idun - I would actually call it a folding flap rather than a valve but it does the same thing and I know what you mean.

[/quote]

I think you will find the 'flap' is generally refered to as a 'damper'

[Théière]

Flue damper?

[idun]

thankyou, I had no idea that that was what it was called, a damper...... well, I have learnt something today.

[Bonnie]

I'll keep you posted but I still have no idea where to start.   The companies around here are small and basically just want to fit a new fire rather than sort out old problems.

Thanks to all for your comments.

[mint]

You might be better off asking recommendations amongst local friends and neighbours; even perhaps at your mairie as they usually have a list of tradespeople.

[Bonnie]

Hi Mint,

Yes, I think the Mairie would be the first step - I'll go up now.