P85 / FD5

[Gardian]

I've noticed that from time to time, there have been questions about how long these documents take to get processed. 

For anybody who doesn't know what they are, they're the documents that you complete to notify HMRC that (1) you have left or are about to leave the UK and (2) you wish to claim a tax refund of UK tax since you became a French resident.  The latter takes a bit of a tortuous route from your local French tax office, to Paris, and then on to Nottingham, where they process the refund.

I received notification today from Nottingham, having sent off my FD5 to the local tax office in mid-November, so 4+ months overall, but I do still have to return copies of P60's, so it'll be another couple of weeks at least before I see any refund.  It's hardly greased lightning, but I have no complaint, since it has to pass through a number of hands.

This is just so that nobody expects or relies on getting their hands on the cash quickly. 

[Bugsy]

I sent a P85 to the Inland Revenue in November 2006 and received a query requesting how many days had I been in the UK since we moved here. I replied to that straight away, but am still waiting for a reply. 5 months and waiting.........................

[Sunday Driver]

BB

You normally submit the P85 before you leave the UK. When HMRC receive it, they transfer your tax file to the Centre for Non-residents, who send you the FD5 tax reclaim form. 

When you hand in your first French tax declaration, you give them your completed FD5 at the same time and they send it to Paris.  Paris enter your new French tax reference (this is usually where the delay occurs - they have to calculate your tax first) then stamp the form and send it to Nottingham.  When Nottingham receive it, they are usually quite prompt in processing the refund.

I'd phone HMRC to find out what's gone wrong......

 

 

[Bugsy]

Thanks SD, I'll explain my particular circumstances next time we meet.

[Gardian]

BB .............

When I rang Nottingham in early-Feb to try to find out if they'd received my FD5, they were very helpful but said that they were "a couple of months behind".

That doesn't completely explain your delay, but ............. 

[Bugsy]

Well, it's finally arrived (I wonder if they log on here  [:)]). I now have the FD5 forms from the IRS, for me to complete and sent off. It's only taken from November 2006.

One question, which isn't clear, the form comes in two parts (english and french), am I right in thinking that the english form has to be endorsed by the french tax office and then returned by me to the UK, or do the french t.o. send the whole lot back via paris.

Thanks

[Sunday Driver]

Your tax office sends the forms to Paris.  They then stamp the english version certifying you are now in the French tax system and send it to Nottingham.

 

[Bugsy]

Thanks SD

[Bugsy]

I've PM'd you...............................

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

Your tax office sends the forms to Paris.  They then stamp the english version certifying you are now in the French tax system and send it to Nottingham.

 

[/quote]In theory, SD!  Mine signed the form themselves and then gave it back to me to send to Nottingham - no problems at the UK end.  However, they insisted on waiting until I had actually begun to pay my 1st year's French tax before they would sign it.  They do seem to differ a bit (the individual tax offices) as to how this is dealt with.

[Gardian]

Just an update 3 months on from when I said that I should get my refund in a "couple of weeks".

Still waiting.

Three calls to Nottingham in the last month and have been told that my file was in the 'immediate' category.  After yesterday's (polite, but as firm as I could sensibly make it) call, I then received an email and phone call for further information, after which I have been assured that a cheque will go off to my bank by the end of the week.

So, returning to my original post, don't hold your breath over how soon you'll get a refund.  For me, it's 8 months and still counting!  To be fair, not all down to HMRC, but a good 2/3rds of it.

[cooperlola]

Yup, Gardian, I'm still waiting for mine too, although Nottingham acknowledge that they have received it.  Mine's been passed on to Bootle so we'll see who's the quicker!

When the o/h did his last year, it took 5 weeks!  I guess it's in the interests of the UK economy to be slow with these things.

[Nomad]

Appologies for my ignorance - I understand the P85 (Form) and it seems simple enough to complete. I have some questions regarding the FD5 (Form)

When should this form be used?

I will not have any income in France other than my Military Pension (Taxed at source) would I need to ever complete an FD5?

I will be completing a P85 in the near future but I have been informed by the Tax office that I need to provide my P45 at the time of submitting the form - my reason for using this form is to get my tax back for this tax year.  Will I also need to complete an FD5 too?

If you need either of these forms they exist on-line and live here

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/france-company.pdf <-- FD5 form in PDF format

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/p85.pdf <-- P85 form in PDF format

[cooperlola]

As far as I know, as your military pension is taxed in the UK, you do not need to complete an FD5.  It is for those (like me) with non-government penions and other incomes which are taxable in France, not the UK, to stop tax being paid in both countries.

[Nomad]

[quote user="cooperlola"]As far as I know, as your military pension is taxed in the UK, you do not need to complete an FD5.  It is for those (like me) with non-government penions and other incomes which are taxable in France, not the UK, to stop tax being paid in both countries.[/quote]

That is good news - I will o back to browsing [img]http://www.completefrance.com/cs/images/emotions/whistling.gif[/img]

[Benjamin]

[quote user="Nomad"]

I will be completing a P85 in the near future but I have been informed by the Tax office that I need to provide my P45 at the time of submitting the form - my reason for using this form is to get my tax back for this tax year.

[/quote]

Without wishing to be too nosey, what tax are you looking to get back?

You say your Military Pension is taxed at source and you have no other income so, unless your PAYE code number is incorrect, how has the refund situation arisen?

[Nomad]

I am in full employment until 31 August and then move to out of the UK in September - as this is less than the 180 days required by the UK I believe I can claim any tax paid back, but also I need to inform the tax man I am gone from the UK. 

[Benjamin]

I haven't paid tax in the UK for a number of years and also I'm no tax expert but are you certain about this 180 day rule?

I've just lifted the following from the FAQ's page on the HMRC web site and there's no mention of 180 days.

Q16: What is Split Year Treatment?

A16: You are either resident or not resident in the UK for

the whole of a tax year. However, by concession, the tax year is split in

certain circumstances when you come to, or leave, the UK part way through

a tax year. Where this applies, your tax liabilities on income which are affected

by tax residence will be calculated on the basis of the period of your actual

residence here during the year. This has the same effect as splitting the

tax year into resident and not resident periods.

The notes that accompany the Non-Residence Self-Assessment

supplementary page will help you determine whether you qualify for Split Year

Treatment.

[cooperlola]

I don't believe the residency is that relevant to Nomad's tax position anyway, as his income is taxable in the UK both now and in the future (government pension).  However, a rebate will be due at the end of the present tax year, simply because his tax code pre the (I imagine) drop in income once the wage changes to a pension, will be incorrectly high as it will assume the higher earnings for the whole tax year.  Like you Benjamin, I think the 180 day rule is spurious - you are a French tax resident the day you move, if you intent to stay!  You should certainly fill in a French tax form - even though you may not be liable to pay any tax over here.  But I'm sure there's an expert around here who'll clarify.

[Nomad]

I always intended to complete the French Tax form as well ;)

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Nomad"]I always intended to complete the French Tax form as well ;)[/quote]I'm sure you did![:)] - Sorry if I appeared to imply otherwise.

[Nomad]

No offence taken - this is the advice for the form I have been advised to complete by the Tax man.

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/worksheets/sa109-notes.pdf 

[Ron Avery]

Coops said " I'm still waiting for mine too, although Nottingham acknowledge that they have received it.  Mine's been passed on to Bootle so we'll see who's the quicker!"

Two parts of the same thing Coops.  Nottingham is the Administrative Centre for non residents, Bootle is the tax office for Non residents.  Nottingham tell Bootle what to do when the paperwork is in place,  for example tax refunds after date of leaving UK has been confirmed.  If you have any concerns about tax after you have left the UK, you contact Bootle in the first instance.

I agree with you Benjamin, Nomad will not be able to claim back any tax paid whilst employed in the UK,  the application of 180 day rule here is complete tosh.  What will happen in his case is that in March 2008 when the tax year ends the income and tax for the year will be assessed and if the tax liability exceeds the tax paid he will get a refund. The only time most of us private pension holders get a refund is when tax has continued to be deducted in the UK after we left the UK and that tax is refunded after Nottingham confirm the date of exit and Bootle issue the paperwork for the refund of tax and an instruction to pay gross sums to the pension payer.

[cooperlola]

Thanks RA, makes sense now.  Whatever, my paperwork appears to be "in the pile" along with the rest of the back-log.  I await developments (and cash! - I've now been paying tax in both countries for some months.  Humph.)

[Ron Avery]

It can often be the response time of your old UK tax office and/or employer to Bootle that holds up getting back tax repaid and then how good your pension payer is at getting the code instigated and back tax refunded.  Be patient  Cops, it will arrive.