UK Tax

[sueyh]

We have not yet received our tax code from the UK, we posted off tax forms last June.  Should I be concerned or are they just slow?  We are french residents.

Suey

[idun]

We never ever had a UK tax code when we were french residents and never expected one. In fact we haven't had one since we have been back, we just do the declarations and pay up when necessary.

[Hereford]

You will get a tax code if you have UK pensions.  Probably a bit early yet - they do not normally go out until the spring - assuming you mean a code for 2011/12.  Try and get HMRC to issue an NT code then no tax is deducted (not applicable if the pension is a government one).

Mrs H

[sueyh]

thanks. Yeah we definitely have to pay tax, government pension and small rent from Uk property.

Suey

[Gluestick]

Whilst the beneficiary of government, civil service and military pensions has no choice but to pay UK tax, there is a choice over rental income from UK property if the owner is non-resident.

See here:

In the final analysis, it's not actually too important since using the shelter of Double Taxation Treaty between France and UK, it will balance out.

[parsnips]

[quote user="Gluestick"]Whilst the beneficiary of government, civil service and military pensions has no choice but to pay UK tax, there is a choice over rental income from UK property if the owner is non-resident.

See here:

In the final analysis, it's not actually too important since using the shelter of Double Taxation Treaty between France and UK, it will balance out.

[/quote]

Hi,

     I think you will find that the rents are paid gross (by the agent , who is normally responsible for deducting standard rate tax from non-residents rents) when the rents are the landlord's only UK income and are covered by personal allowances. The certificate of exemption is a concession to cut paperwork.This does not alter the fact that only the UK is entitled to tax the rents under the current treaty arrangements.

    It actually works like this; france is allowed to calculate french tax due on UK rents (after giving credit for any UK tax paid ) but is then obliged by the treaty to give an exemption equal to the amount of french tax due! So to cut this meaningless paperwork they just accept that in effect the rents are not taxable in france.

[Gluestick]

From HMRC:

Conditions for applying to HMRC for approval to receive

rental income with no tax deducted

Non-resident landlords can apply to receive their rent with no tax deducted

on the basis that either

• their UK tax affairs are up to date
• they have not had any UK tax obligations before they applied
• they do not expect to be liable to UK Income Tax for the year in which
  they apply
• they are not liable to pay UK tax because they are Sovereign Immunes
  (these are generally foreign Heads of State, governments or government
  departments)

If a non-UK resident (Foreign usual abode) is in possession of the necessary exemption certificate, then the Managing Agent (If used), is allowed not to levy the Withholding Tax as would be normal.

It can be rather different for limited liability companies, however.

[Will]

But surely the point is that the rents still have to be declared, certainly so in the country where they are taxable (in this case UK), and as part of worldwide income in the country where you are tax resident. If the income falls below the receipent's UK personal allowance, then no tax will be payable and the UK tax code will not be affected.

 

[Hereford]

Absolutely right Will.    I could not be bothered to take this up with Gluestick - who I don;t think is talking to me because of my answer on another thread re Avoidance versus Evasion.

I should add that I have been a member of the ICAEW for over 40 years and OH over 50 years and although now retired we have not quite lost our marbles yet.

Mrs H

[Un autre Gallois]

Hi - I think rent under £100 pweek can be received gross with no need for revenue approval (or for tenant's obligation to deduct tax).

UaGallois

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Hereford"]Absolutely right Will.    I could not be bothered to take this up with Gluestick - who I don;t think is talking to me because of my answer on another thread re Avoidance versus Evasion.

[/quote]

??????

Your original comment was posted after the OP started the thread: I was not then involved.

After I responded further (Having stated your point was interesting), you participated no further.

So, sorry: I don't get it.

Unless you are sending me telepathic messages!

[:)]

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Will"]

But surely the point is that the rents still have to be declared, certainly so in the country where they are taxable (in this case UK), and as part of worldwide income in the country where you are tax resident. If the income falls below the receipent's UK personal allowance, then no tax will be payable and the UK tax code will not be affected.

 

[/quote]

Unless the landlord desires the rent stream as cashflow and wants to defer paying the tax until they file their SA100.

For example.

I was merely trying to point out that ex-pat landlords who have proved their status to HMRC can elect to take their rent stream free of tax: as many do when they enjoy a reasonably good portfolio.

Same with CRT.

[Hereford]

Sorry Gluestick - you are right I did not respond further.  Did not really want an argument, especially with a fellow professional.  Loopholes have always been plugged later when used for tax avoidance but that does not mean it wasn't legal when used before the plugging.  Also Tax Inspectors, as we used to call them (!), have always picked up tips so this is not something new.

Mrs H.

[sueyh]

It arrived finally with our Christmas mail.  Nice Christmas present Mr Taxman and nice tax bill to pay.

Suey

[Bugsy]

We, or rather I recently received a UK tax demand for unpaid tax for 2008-9 and 2009-10 [:(] despite being 'tax-resident' in france for over eight years.

After a rather worrying wait over Christmas I finally contacted them yesterday and was immediately told that it was all a mistake and would be corrected, I even got an apology and an assurance that a letter confirming this mistake and correction would be sent to me.

Funny thing was I received my annual 'NT' coding for 2010-11 in the same batch of mail [:D]

I wonder how many others have received similar demands.

.

[mint]

Bugs, can you or anyone else out there please confirm that this is number to call:

0044 161 93 9070

This is the number on my Statement.  The statement, of course, is wrong and that is why I need to ring.  Have tried all other available numbers with zilch results.

[Bugsy]

The number I rang, taken from the papers I received was

0845 3000 627

Hope that helps.[;-)]

 .

[mint]

Thanks, Bugs.  Will have a further go and will let you know.

[mint]

Further to the previous post, I rang your number, Bugs, just kept on hold, on hold, on hold PLUS some seriously brain damaging music.

Anyway, have since found that for overseas calls, this is the number (and it was answered pretty rapidly...)

0044 161 931 9070.

Hope that's of help to someone or other on the Forum.

Edit:  Was told that, as my request for a refund, relates to 2008/2009, they are not yet dealing with that!  Most helpful, as I'm sure you'll all agree.[+o(]

[Bugsy]

I had no problem with that number but I did ring it one nanosecond after they opened [Www]

Afterthought !!

Checking my stuff a bit (as you do) my incorrect paperwork came from somewhere in Wales, Ty Glas, Llanishen. [:D]

I'll make no further comment on that.[:D][:D]

[Patf]

0161 is the code for Manchester. The one I'm usually given to ring is for Bradford, and I know this was the dept. that used to deal with my tax when I was working.

So perhaps that's the reason for all the different numbers?

On the other hand they now give me a Nottingham number - no wonder they make mistakes [8-)] (left hand doesn't know what right hand is doing.)

[mint]

Wherever the paperwork comes from, it's obvious that they couldn't organise the proverbial p*** up in a brewery.[+o(]

[suej]

Just an update on useful numbers....

Spent quite a while this afternoon trying to speak to a real person about NT tax code, tax rebates etc and  seemed to be going round the Wrekin as it were until somebody gave me this number for future use and then put me through direct( immediate contact, no awful music):

                                                                                                 0161 930 8705 

 

 Spoke to someone very helpful with all our relevant info on screen- I was very impressed.. and relieved.

[mint]

Hey, Sue, you little angel, you!  I might have had some money, not sure but there was an unexplained credit into my bank account and I can't think of who else might have given me any money!

OH has a largish claim to make and I still have money owing so the number should be very useful.  Thank you, lots!

[suej]

 Well when the actual rebate that they say is just about to be sent really does show up in our account you'll hear the whoops of delight  blasting into the stratosphere. We'll see.....

Seriously, the lady who dealt with me was really helpful and was able to explain that things were firther along the line than I imagined. Good luck!

 

Oh poo- can't believe I spelt further like, must be screen fatigue.