OAP parents living with us Tax question

[sue]

Hi there wondering if anyone can help. My parent moved to France permanently last year after they both retired. They are living with us. Do I know put them on my tax return form when i complete it or do they do their own.

Also on another note when do you receive "declaration preremple" for 2012. I am under the auto entrepaneau scheme (god help me). On my last return i filled in the printable forms. The form i got back from them with all the figures etc doesnt have a teledeclarant number, it just says "see your statement" so i cant do it on line. Thanks in advance

[sue]

Another quick question (trying not to hog the board here) Please please tell me i was not meant to sign and return the "Avis d'import" form back to them. It has a little signature box at the bottom of the page that i have only just noticed. However it say "important keep the original form. if an organisation wants one to copy, sign and date it" well words to that effect. Sorry for all the questions

[NormanH]

Other people are better versed in tax affairs than I am, but my understanding is that if your parents are independent but just living in part of your house they should do their own declaration.

If they are dependent on you I think you can include them, but as I assume they have pensions I would guess the former is the case.

I have never returned the Avis and never been asked for it by the Tax people.

On the other hand on one occasion when I was getting a bank loan and using it as proof of income I  was asked to sign by he bank

[tinabee]

The bank need to copy a signed & dated Avis if you qualify for an LEP savings account.

[parsnips]

[quote user="sue"]Hi there wondering if anyone can help. My parent moved to France permanently last year after they both retired. They are living with us. Do I know put them on my tax return form when i complete it or do they do their own.

Also on another note when do you receive "declaration preremple" for 2012. I am under the auto entrepaneau scheme (god help me). On my last return i filled in the printable forms. The form i got back from them with all the figures etc doesnt have a teledeclarant number, it just says "see your statement" so i cant do it on line. Thanks in advance[/quote]

Hi,

     You can claim on your declaration for any financial support you give your parents if they are without resources. Otherwise they will need to do their own (joint) declaration.

   For a reduction of  your tax d'habitation, they must be ;1. over 70 or infirm

                                                                                    2. living with you

                                                                                     3. have a joint french  income (revenu fiscal de référence) for the previous year less than 15684€ (2013)

    Details here;

www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/dgi/public/popup?espId=1&typePage=cpr02&docOid=documentstandard_1544&temNvlPopUp=true

Regarding your avis you do NOT sign and return it , you only use it when claiming benefits , or applying for a tax-free livret épargne populaire  at your bank.

[HoneySuckleDreams]

[quote user="parsnips"]
    Regarding your avis you do NOT sign and return it , you only use it when claiming benefits , or applying for a tax-free livret épargne populaire  at your bank.
[/quote]

I think you sign it to agree to the numbers. No need to send it anywhere.

I went to the RSI, because I thought about wasting a morning of my life, and they wanted a copy, signed (as I had forgotten to sign it) for something or other

[sue]

Thank you for all your replies. I think their pension is over that amount and they are yet to turn 70. Its ggod to know that the council tax will go down when they do though.

Regarding one of my other questions do auto entrepreneaus get a Declarartion preremple or do i have to fill in the 2042 c and the other form again with my childrens details etc etc

(i forget the number).

[idun]

I don't think that you will, as it says 's'ils remplissent les 3 conditions suivantes'. Which means as far as I can tell, they have to fulfill all three of those conditions.

I would have expected it to be worded differently if they only had to fulfill one or two of these conditions.

I was also wondering, as the household would have extra income, if the taxe d'hab could possibly go up rather than down, that is something that I do not know, but personally I would be checking up on at my local Tresorie, just in case, as I always hate unexpected bills.

Un abattement à la taxe d'habitation

Vous pouvez bénéficier pour la taxe d'habitation de votre résidence

principale d'un abattement pour charge de famille pour vos ascendants et

ceux de votre conjoint s'ils remplissent les 3 conditions suivantes :

• être âgés de plus de 70 ans ou infirmes, (c'est à dire ne pouvant subvenir par leur travail aux nécessités de l'existence),
• résider avec vous,
• et avoir perçu l’année précédente un revenu fiscal de référence
  n’excédant pas un certain montant : consultez le document «Plafond de
  revenu pour les réductions de taxes d'habitation et foncières» ( lien
  dans la rubrique En savoir plus, en bas de page ).

[sue]

Hi Idun

I have already informed the tresorie that they are living here. Strange that out tax was only about 300€ last year where the year before it was just over 1k?? No doubt get a back dated bill *sigh*.

What form do i need them to fill in. My father gets a full state pension and a small private pension of about £210 a month. My mother only gets a pension based on my dads earnings (£70ish a week).

Also i have just tried downlaoding the forms for myself but see they are still for 2011. Thought i would get a head start in case i done get a prefilled one sent to me.

[idun]

As I said, I don't know how all this works with regards to taxe d'hab. It might  affect it once they have done their own declaration des impots.

Forms for new tax payers always used to be available at the Mairie or tax office, spring time. I've posted the dates that the declarations have to be in below so for a paper declaration if they were in France in  2012 will be 27th May midnight, any later and they will be fined. They will have to fill in the form with their income from the date they arrived in France in 2012 up to 31st Dec 2012. If they arrived this year, then you have a year before they need to do anything.

Unless their private pension is a government pension, then they shouldn't pay any UK tax on their pension any more as they are living in France. Their S1 forms should mean that they avoid the CSG etc in France, apart from on actual french income, like interest etc.

Impots 2013 : Date de déclaration des revenus 2013

Fiscalité et impôts | 3 avril 2013 | K&P Finance

Cette

année les dates de déclaration des revenus 2013 pour les impôts 2013

ont été légèrement avancées : Les contribuables devront envoyer leur

déclaration de revenus le 27 mai à minuit au plus tard. Par Internet,

ils auront des délais supplémentaires, selon les zones géographiques :

du 3 au 11 juin.

Les dates limites de dépôt des déclarations de revenu 2013
Envoi des déclarations « papier »	Le lundi 27 mai à minuit au plus tard
Par Internet, départements numérotés de 1 à 19	Le lundi 3 juin à minuit au plus tard
Par Internet, départements numérotés de 20 à 49	Le vendredi 7 juin à minuit au plus tard
Par Internet, départements numérotés de 50 à 974	Le mardi 11 juin à minuits au plus tard

[sue]

Just a normal state pension and i have got them their carte vital already so thats one job down. My marie is hardly ever open when it is its when i am at work. Will keep checking on line and down load it then. DWP know they are in France.

What is CSG. Is it Capital something Gains?

[idun]

As I said, the tax office will have them too, or maybe as you say, on line, I've never done that.

As you work in France you will be paying CSG, CRDS etc on your salary everyone has to pay it, more or less. As you can see it is taken from french pensions in France too. But your parents only have UK pensions.

	Salaries and unemployment benefits (on 97% of gross)	Retirement or Disability Pensions (on 95% of gross)	Investments, annuities, rental income and capital gains
CSG (Contribution sociale généralisée)	7.5%	6.6%	8.2%
CRDS (Contribution au remboursement de la dette sociale)	0.5%	0.5%	0.5%
PS (Prélèvement Sociale Contribution additionelle)	0%	0%	3.4%

The DWP may know, but are they still taking PAYE from them???????  They shouldn't be. If they are, they should be sending them or have sent them a P60.

[sue]

They have received some forms saying what their tax code is and how much I/R are allowing for fathers private pension. Everything is getting sent here. I dont think any PAYE is being taken.

CSG doh. I knew that. Just didnt ring a bell when you wrote it earlier.

[idun]

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/france-individual.pdf

Have they filled in that form??  Unless the private pension was a government pension and then they will give that a tax code. Otherwise they shouldn't be giving a tax code per se, the code should be NT, which actually means No Tax!!!! Any other tax code is just plain wrong.

[sue]

Eek I am not sure. They are not getting taxed on what they get. Says something like you allowance is x and if you earn above this then you might be liable to pay tax. However their pensions are below that amount. im not sure what the tax code is.

Is it just the 2042 form they need to fill out when declaring they "earnings" or the 2047 as well ( i think thats the form numbers).

Sorry for all the questions. Just dont want to get on the wrong side of the french tax man. Its bad enough with the rsi i am under

[idun]

I feel I have to go back, your taxe d'hab for last year has nothing to do with your parents unless they moved in on the 1st of January 2012, any payment for that last autumn was down to your circumstances on the 1st of Jan that year.

Your parents will only count from 1st Jan 2013 and the taxe people will have had their declaration by then.

There is usually plenty of state help with tax forms, at the hotel des impots and taxe officers doing permanences at local Mairies.

[sue]

Have got the father to have a look through all his paper work. With his state pension that gets paid directly into his french account so i am going to write all the figures down from each month. The other one he gets paid into his english account. What exchange rate do i use for that?

[NormanH]

You will need a 2047  a pink form usually (which you have to ask for as an extra) for any income from the UK, but not the OAP, since that is declared on the 2042 (the standard blue one)

[sue]

So i need to declare the samll private pension my dad has on the 2047 and the normal state pension on the 2042?

[Hereford]

Plus you transfer the private pension to the main form 2042 - box to do this in is obvious.

As an aside: be aware that if either of your parents needs to go to a Maison de Retraite later in life and they cannot pay the full fees then you will be required to submit a form regarding your income and may well have to contribute. We are in the process of doing the paperwork for this. Even "children" who are not in France will be asked to complete a form.

Mrs H

[idun]

Well not really, your parents needs  'declare' their income both on the same form.

[sue]

[quote user="Hereford"]Plus you transfer the private pension to the main form 2042 - box to do this in is obvious.

As an aside: be aware that if either of your parents needs to go to a Maison de Retraite later in life and they cannot pay the full fees then you will be required to submit a form regarding your income and may well have to contribute. We are in the process of doing the paperwork for this. Even "children" who are not in France will be asked to complete a form.

Mrs H

[/quote]

I have a shovel and 12 acres of land with a deep lake. No need for a retirement home ;-)

I will hopefully be used to the french paper work by then

[idun]

It isn't only the children but grandchildren and great grand children too that are required to contribute if there isn't enough money to pay for a home.

[sue]

[quote user="idun"]It isn't only the children but grandchildren and great grand children too that are required to contribute if there isn't enough money to pay for a home.

[/quote]

OMG!!!!! no way

[sue]

well father is 66, mother is 64. My children are 9 and 2. I am hoping the burden will not full on them