100 billion

[Bugsy]

£100,000,000,000 (is that enough noughts?)

Gorgons plans seem to have a recurring theme over that figure.

Today he's borrowing it (its about £165,000 for every man, woman and child in the UK)

Yesterday he was stealing it from the pension schemes

Here

.[:@][:@]

[Âme]

[quote user="Bugbear"]£100,000,000,000 (is that enough noughts?)
[/quote]

I believe you've written 100 US billion. In UK terms that is one hundred thousand million.

US billion = 1,000 million

UK billion = 1 million, million

(so it needs another three noughts) £100,000,000,000,000

[AnOther]

I seem to be missing something here.

If the world is broke where is Moron borrowing his 100bill from ?

The destruction of pensions, the first 10 years

[IMG]http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123/biskitboyo/Pensionplunge.jpg[/IMG]

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="Âme"]

[quote user="Bugbear"]£100,000,000,000 (is that enough noughts?)
[/quote]

I believe you've written 100 US billion. In UK terms that is one hundred thousand million.

US billion = 1,000 million

UK billion = 1 million, million

(so it needs another three noughts) £100,000,000,000,000

[/quote]

I think Bugbear wuz right......

From Wikipedia:

"The long and short scales are two different numerical systems used throughout the world:

Short scale is the English translation of the French term échelle courte.^[1] It refers to a system of numeric names in which every new term greater than million is 1,000 times the previous term: "billion" means "a thousand millions" (10⁹), "trillion" means "a thousand billions" (10¹²), and so on.

Long scale is the English translation of the French term échelle longue. It refers to a system of numeric names in which every new term greater than million is 1,000,000 times the previous term: "billion" means "a million millions" (10¹²), "trillion" means "a million billions" (10¹⁸), and so on.

Note that the difference between the two scales grows as numbers get larger. Million is the same in both scales, but the long-scale billion is a thousand times larger than the short-scale billion, the long-scale trillion is a million times larger than the short-scale trillion, and so on.

For most of the 19th and 20th centuries, the United Kingdom uniformly used the long scale,^[2] while the United States of America used the short scale,^[2] so that usage of the two systems was often referred to as "British" and "American" respectively. In 1974 the government of the UK abandoned the long scale, so that the UK now applies the short scale interpretation exclusively in mass media and official usage.^[3][4][5] Although some residual usage of the long scale continues in the UK, the phrases "British usage" and "American usage" are no longer accurate or helpful characterizations.

The two systems can be a subject of controversy and can arouse emotion."   [:P]

You can tell I'm bored.......[;-)]

 

[Théière]

[quote user="ErnieY"]I seem to be missing something here.

If the world is broke where is Moron borrowing his 100bill from ?


[/quote]

From those awfully nice Muslim oil producing countries and their friends we are at war with.

[Âme]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]In 1974 the government of the UK abandoned the long scale (...) in mass media and official usage.[/quote]

Aha, I'm 34 years out of date!  In my defence they were still teaching long scale in the late seventies. I blame the comprehensive system. [Www] Thx SD. Apologies Bugbear, I wuz well wrong!

[The Riff-Raff Element]

So, now we've got all those zeros sorted out, that makes around £1,670 per head of UK population.

Which is still a chunk of change. I mean, I'd be chuffed if I found that down the back of the sofa.

But I do think the question "who are they borrowing it all from?" is a jolly good one. I don't think it is the oil producers: they've got their own problems since many of them budgeted for an oil price of $65 per barrel, which looked pretty sensible at the time.

The soverign wealth funds are depleted, so what is left?

OK - Norway is pretty flush, but they haven't got the funds to bail out the whole planet.

Could it be that the money that various governments are using to buy shares in banks to stop them going under is being lent by the banks themselves, who are getting the money from selling the shares to the governments? I think it might be.

[WJT]

[quote user="The Riff-Raff Element"]So, now we've got all those zeros sorted out, that makes around £1,670 per head of UK population.

Which is still a chunk of change. I mean, I'd be chuffed if I found that down the back of the sofa.

But I do think the question "who are they borrowing it all from?" is a jolly good one. I don't think it is the oil producers: they've got their own problems since many of them budgeted for an oil price of $65 per barrel, which looked pretty sensible at the time.

[/quote]

Just heard they are discussing cutting production even further to try to increase the price of oil. This will be the second recent attempt. Even if it doesn't go up to the ridiculous amounts of a few months ago, I think they are sitting on piles of money, in any case. I heard on the news last night, I think it was The Royal Bank of Scotland or one of the banks not wanting government handouts are receiving loans from one of the Arab countries (forgot which one [:$]).

[The Riff-Raff Element]

I just got off the 'phone to a chum who's still in the industry (I'm on childcare duty, she's having her nap and I have nothing much else to do) and what he has said is broadly this:

• The Saudis and Kuwaitis are basically OK but not sitting on wodges of spare cash. They should both be able to cover their budget commitments but are unlikely to be going to load up on more western debt as they have plenty already - he seems to think that they already own about 19% of the US debt and about 12% of coporate America between them;
• Iran and Venezeula are both up a certain creek fabbled in story & song having grossly over reached themselves;
• Russia has spent of the order of $60bn propping up the rouble and their own economy and the cupboard is now bare.
• The smaller oil producers are in their usual chaotic state, either hopelessly corrupt or wildly overspent. There might be a bit of cash left in the Emirates to buy a football team or two, or loan some crumbs to RBOS but they don't really want any more western debt either.
• No one believes any cuts will be completely realised because the producers desperately need the money and will all cheat like mad.

I don't think it really exists this money: the banks have lent their shares to the governement in return for gilts, any dividends will just offset the interest on the bonds. There is no actual money involved - it's the financial equivalent of the five-card trick that was popular outside dog tracks at one time.

I wonder if we should be worried?

 

[AnOther]

It's Barclays I believe who are getting (further) into bed with the A-rabs.

Regarding cutting back production to support prices, the recent hijacking of the Saudi tanker with it's 2m BBLs aboard was very telling on the state of the market. Previously even the mention of a hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico or a few Nigerian militants kicking off would send shivers through the market and prices would rise.

Now however we see 2m BBLs effectively 'disappear' from the world market overnight and what happens the price -zilch [:'(]

[Ron Avery]

Given the distances these pirates are willing to travel for a "prize" Ern, I'd be asking my shop steward what the security arrangements are on the old platform or do they already have a cunning plan? 

 Now that is an idea, hijack an oil rig get £2m in ransom (or £200m depending if Gary is their accountant[:P]), then political assylum in the UK, council house, free NHS, loads of money from the DWP .... marvellous,  how could it go wrong??? [Www]

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

 ...................hijack an oil rig get £2m in ransom (or £200m depending if Gary is their accountant[:P]),

[/quote]

You can be so hurtful at times Ronald......................[;-)]

[Chancer]

[quote user="Bugbear"][quote user="Ron Avery"]

 ...................hijack an oil rig get £2m in ransom (or £200m depending if Gary is their accountant[:P]),

[/quote]

You can be so hurtful at times Ronald......................[;-)]
[/quote]

But he was being kind, he should have added one more zero [:)]

One hour of maths detention for you both this week [:D]

[Quillan]

Well the Tories sold the silver and this guy is rummaging around in the bottom draw up in the attic and discovered Ordinance Survey, Forestry Commision and the Met Office to flog off (details HERE)

Still those of you back in Blighty will be ecstatic what with VAT being dropped by 2.5%. I wonder if he gave any thought to business that have to reprint invoices, change their websites etc. I also wonder if he thought about people wanting to buy big expensive things between now and the 1st December, thats killed sales till the rate drops.

I see VAT will drop on petrol only to clawed back by putting duty up. Tax has stayed the same but your NI contribution are going up.

Typical Labour, lets spend our way out of trouble and let somebody else pick up the bill, I wonder who that will be [Www] .

As to the Pensions raid back in 2006 he did another not that long ago.

[Babbles]

Having a small business in the UK we watch to see how it is going to affect us, well it seems the VAT reduction is going to be off set with another tax (or something, Duty?) so Booze and Fags stay at the same retail price, so we thought great no need to change the EPOS system, but we will have to as it calculates our VAT sales, just what we needed a load of extra work to do just before Christmas without the benefit of reduced prices, not that 8p off a bottle of wine will get them flocking to the shops, the one thing that small business was a reduction in NI (to help with job security) has not happened, in fact going up. Never the phrase "move over Darling" been more appropriate[6]

And oil was under 50 dollar a barrel yesterday, need reduction in prices now please, but the £ slipped again against the Euro[:'(]

[Keni]

Like you Babbles, I have a small retail business in the UK at present - so yesterday I dug out the till programming book to try and find out how to re-program the thing to 15% VAT. However after that we decided to just stick a sign up and say 2.5% off all marked prices, or something like that and just use a calculator to figure each sale out (great for the Christmas rush). The next question is once we start getting stock next week from suppliers and they (hopefully) drop the VAT to us, we then have to figure out some stock at lower prices, so some will have to be calcuated at say 4% less etc.

But I am still paying Mr.Brown for the priviledge of employing staff - if he dropped the employers rates (not employees) it would save far more, allowing jobs to be more secure surely. We pay a minimum of another £16+ per employee at basic rate. For a large company that is a load of dosh, and with JCB and other firms taking pay cuts to ensure the jobs stay, workers are doing their bit, so why can't Brown help the employers keep their staff?

 

[Théière]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kQdNLFVdwfQ&feature=related

just for a little smile in the troubled times

[Chancer]

Keni

Imagine if that NIC £16+ per employee were to instead be social charges of 60+%?

Which country would you rather run a business in?

P.S I agree entirely with you

[cowoman]

I dont think Brown /darling should be allowed to take us into this amount of debt without getting the books straight first.  He says we are the best placed country to ride the storm and everyone knows that this is a blatent lie.  So how can anybody believe a word he says.  VAT is only on luxury items as well and who has got any money spare for those?  With all the extra paperwork involved with all the changes he is proposing I am sure it will all  just cancel out.  Why didn't he just give it directly back to us to spend.....he could of given us a little Christmas bonus untaxed of course. He could of  dressed  up in a little red and white suit complete with a sac of cheques...................and I still wouldn't trust him!!!

[Babbles]

The thing is J.R. we're a village shop and Post Office and employ 14 people, and have turned it from a loss maker to turning over more than a million, which frankly for a rural business is quite amazing if I do say so myself[;-)] we'd been teased with grants that never happened and  have no help apart from a rates reduction. I don't think we could have used the same business model in France but we feel strongly about creating local jobs, but there is only so much increased employment cost that we can absorb. For me the whole crux of ecconomic recoverly hangs on job security and as it has been well discussed why it's very difficult to employ people in France and its difficult to be an entrepreneur but just because France is worse than the UK in terms of enterprise it doesn't mean that the UK  should too make it more difficult to employ people