How to deprive your village of a free service .

[Patf]

As someone who spent 10 years as a volunteer driver, taking folks to hospital in the UK, I sympathise with your point of view.

It feels good to be able to do it, but it's not always easy or convenient, and your costs are never covered. Some people take advantage, and some even complain, saying eg "the driver was late."

So to have this extra problem must make some think, is it worth it?

[YCCMB]

I just cannot believe that you think these people have some sort of divine right to exceed the speed limit, whether on voluntary work or not. If their public-spirit extends only as far as being seen as kindly helpers of those without transport, but not as far as being prepared to observe the speed limit whilst doing it, then as I said before, I guess the volunteer register may be better off without them. It will significantly reduce the risk of an innocent pedestrian being knocked down by a speeding motorist taking someone to hospital, anyway. You never know, a spinoff benefit might be that there are then fewer people needing to be driven to out patient appointments in the first place. Win:win!

[Patf]

Haven't you ever exceeded the speed limit Jane? Knowingly or not?

[Rabbie]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]I just cannot believe that you think these people have some sort of divine right to exceed the speed limit, whether on voluntary work or not. If their public-spirit extends only as far as being seen as kindly helpers of those without transport, but not as far as being prepared to observe the speed limit whilst doing it, then as I said before, I guess the volunteer register may be better off without them. It will significantly reduce the risk of an innocent pedestrian being knocked down by a speeding motorist taking someone to hospital, anyway. You never know, a spinoff benefit might be that there are then fewer people needing to be driven to out patient appointments in the first place. Win:win![/quote]There is absolutely no evidence in this thread that the volunteer drivers were driving dangerously. As Frederick has said the complaints are being triggered by the sign lighting up. So some one coming into the village at 31 mph might well be reported regardless of whether they were slowing down. I don't know where you get the impression that these volunteer drivers are careering through the village at 60+ mph knocking pedestrians over and leaving them seriously injured but that is not supported by the evidence we have been given.  And do we know if the pedestrian was in fact blameless. Perhaps they stepped out into the road without looking. My impression is that the volunteers are not wanting to go to that village because they just don't need the hassle not because they wish to drive like idiots.

[Loiseau]

On a "speed awareness" course I attended, I seem to remember we were told that you were allowed 10% over the speed limit plus 1 extra mph before you would be prosecuted. (Yes, what a wanton speeder I am...not).

So the poor volunteers who have only managed to drop back to 31 or 32 as they enter the village should be ok.

Angela

[YCCMB]

Of course I've exceeded the speed limit! But that's not my point. Everyone does so at some point, as you say, knowingly or not (though, to be fair, if you do it unknowingly, how do you know you've done it, IYSWIM)

However, I haven't ever set myself up as a do-gooder or volunteer and then thrown a peevish hissy fit because I would rather exceed the sped limit than observe it, and I think it calls into question the motivation of people who would rather withdraw their support for those in need than do something as simple as observe a speed limit.

The speeding issue is, IMO, almost a secondary issue here. It's the apparent expectation of sympathy for people who break it in the specific circumstances outlined, and the implication that they would essentially hold to ransom the needy inhabitants of that village. The implied underlying message being, as expressed in other words in the thread title: " if you stop us from speeding, we will withdraw our labour"

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Rabbie"] I don't know where you get the impression that these volunteer drivers are careering through the village at 60+ mph knocking pedestrians over[/quote] And I don't know where YOU get the impression that I have that impression. It certainly isn't anything I have said! Have you ever seen the documented evidence of the increased extent of injury sustained by a pedestrian from a vehicle travelling at only a few mph above 30?

[EuroTrash]

"It feels good to be able to do it, but it's not always easy or convenient, and your costs are never covered."

That's the nature of volunteering, and nobody has to do it. If you do, I think you have to accept that for a few hours a week you put other people first and yourself second. If you don't respect and care about the people you help, enough to be patient with them and not resent the time and fuel you're spending, what is the point? Or is volunteering all about making the volunteer feel good, these days, and you just have to put up with the grumpy old bags because they're serving a purpose and buffing up your halo.

If they stick to the speed limit then the whole problem goes away, why is that so unreasonable to accept or so hard to understand or indeed so hard to do? It reminds me of spoilt kids - if they can't get their own way, they stamp their little feet and won't play any more. Right and wrong doesn't come into it, all that matter is that their ego has been hurt.

[Russethouse]

My guess is that volunteers perceive the folk taking notes as being petty, and this makes them feel like being petty in return......but it isn't really logical....the volunteers are not 'offenders' as far as we know, so really it shouldn't make any difference to whether they go to those villages or not.....

[Rabbie]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"][quote user="Rabbie"] I don't know where you get the impression that these volunteer drivers are careering through the village at 60+ mph knocking pedestrians over[/quote]

And I don't know where YOU get the impression that I have that impression.

It certainly isn't anything I have said!

Have you ever seen the documented evidence of the increased extent of injury sustained by a pedestrian from a vehicle travelling at only a few mph above 30?[/quote]Remarks like "However, I haven't ever set myself up as a do-gooder or volunteer and

then thrown a peevish hissy fit because I would rather exceed the sped

limit than observe it, and I think it calls into question the motivation

of people who would rather withdraw their support for those in need

than do something as simple as observe a speed limit." and other remarks about if they didn't speed there would be fewer people in hospital are what gave me the impression. As Idun has said the signs can go off at very small margins over the limit so I repeat there is no evidence  that these people are habitual speeders. Perhaps they are drivers with thirty years experience who have never had a single conviction and are just upset at getting an official letter from the police. The truth is that we just don't know so IMO we should give them the benefit of the doubt until we know the facts but that might be too easy for some here.

I would find it extremely worrying if anyone was fined just because someone said the sign had flashed up when they drove past. Speeding fines should only be imposed when the evidence has been collected by a properly calibrated radar gun or police camera.

[YCCMB]

[quote user="Rabbie"][quote user="You can call me Betty"][quote user="Rabbie"] I don't know where you get the impression that these volunteer drivers are careering through the village at 60+ mph knocking pedestrians over[/quote] And I don't know where YOU get the impression that I have that impression. It certainly isn't anything I have said! Have you ever seen the documented evidence of the increased extent of injury sustained by a pedestrian from a vehicle travelling at only a few mph above 30?[/quote]Remarks like "However, I haven't ever set myself up as a do-gooder or volunteer and then thrown a peevish hissy fit because I would rather exceed the sped limit than observe it, and I think it calls into question the motivation of people who would rather withdraw their support for those in need than do something as simple as observe a speed limit." and other remarks about if they didn't speed there would be fewer people in hospital are what gave me the impression. As Idun has said the signs can go off at very small margins over the limit so I repeat there is no evidence  that these people are habitual speeders. Perhaps they are drivers with thirty years experience who have never had a single conviction and are just upset at getting an official letter from the police. The truth is that we just don't know so IMO we should give them the benefit of the doubt until we know the facts but that might be too easy for some here.

I would find it extremely worrying if anyone was fined just because someone said the sign had flashed up when they drove past. Speeding fines should only be imposed when the evidence has been collected by a properly calibrated radar gun or police camera.
[/quote] So, you have made a quantum leap of assumption from my remarks that I believe people are driving at 60 through the village? Because your selective quoting of my post clearly demonstrates that I said no such thing. Look, I can't be any clearer. I don't consider the title of the thread requires me to give the benefit of the doubt to anyone. It explicitly spells out that people who are supposedly out providing help to the community would rather withdraw that support than observe the speed limit. If that isn't short sighted, petty and peevish, then I don't know what is. Frederick earlier unbelievably even suggested that others such as tradesmen might adopt a similar stance. Overall, length of driving history or time served with an unblemished driving record is of no relevance. You are generously giving Frederick's interpretation of the facts, or more specifically, his interpretation of the methodology being used, the benefit of the doubt. I am more than a little sceptical that the police would issue a penalty on the grounds of a pensioner in a deck chair making a few jottings in a notebook. I would like to bet the farm that a speed gun is being used. I've seen a similar system in action locally to me, I know people that were "caught" and the letters issued show the date, time and location of the offence together with the car registration and speed at the time. And these were just warnings. Any attempt to issue a fixed penalty, or points, on the basis of Aggie and Edna jotting down car numbers on the back of a fag packet from the comfort of a folding chair whilst sipping tea from a flask borders on the absurd.

[Quillan]

Another thing that I don't quite understand is why these volunteers. Whenever Mrs 'Q' has to go to the hospital she asks the doctor to organise a hospital car to take her. He gives her a form, she phones the local ambulance service, they take her there and back and she gives them the form which she signs to say that she had been. As far as I know the state pays the ambulance car people for this, if not then it is the mutual that pays, I am not sure which. I have used the same service when I had my knee operate on and very good it was to. From my point of view it was a free service i.e. it didn't cost me a cent.

[Russethouse]

Isn't that a red herring?

There quite a lot of volunteering on the periphery of the NHS, France has a different system.

[Quillan]

Sorry I thought the OP was talking about France and others started to compare it to the UK.

[YCCMB]

Many thanks to the kind moderator, for I assume it was one of them, who restored my post to something legible, rescuing me from iPad hell.

Unfortunately, the paragraphs in my previous post also seem to have disappeared in the reshuffle, so I apologise if this has affected the ease of reading. Trust me, though,it looks better than before!

[Russethouse]

I can't help thinking there is some irony here...how many times do we hear people talk about a lack of community these days, say how people used to look out for each other etc....yet here we have people who perceive a problem on their patch and have volunteered their time to do something about it and they get derided for it by people who have actually done the same... ( volunteered to do something about a problem)

My bet is a significant number of both groups are pensioners and since they have the time there is nothing wrong with that.

I guess if, instead of looking out for motorists who were above the speed limit, these people were busy cuffing the ears of apple scrumpers or similar that would be OK......

[Quillan]

[quote user="You can call me Betty"]Many thanks to the kind moderator, for I assume it was one of them, who restored my post to something legible, rescuing me from iPad hell. Unfortunately, the paragraphs in my previous post also seem to have disappeared in the reshuffle, so I apologise if this has affected the ease of reading. Trust me, though,it looks better than before![/quote]

Twas me, sorry about the formatting.

[Frederick]

[quote user="Russethouse"]I can't help thinking there is some irony here...how many times do we hear people talk about a lack of community these days, say how people used to look out for each other etc....yet here we have people who perceive a problem on their patch and have volunteered their time to do something about it and they get derided for it by people who have actually done the same... ( volunteered to do something about a problem)

My bet is a significant number of both groups are pensioners and since they have the time there is nothing wrong with that.

I guess if, instead of looking out for motorists who were above the speed limit, these people were busy cuffing the ears of apple scrumpers or similar that would be OK......[/quote]

 We seem to have shot off at a tangent here  into the realms of "boy racers " belting through villagers....reasons for volunteering being  to get to  heaven and brownie points .......and nasty people withdrawing labor   ... All getting away from the point.. The thing is drivers whatever they may be doing at the time Due to the action of the  "Number takers " in a few villagers have now had their details put into a County Police data base and stored  for "targeting  " at a later should the Police hear from "Number takers "  within the County again 

They have not been stopped  by the Police . This is not as a result of a "Speed camera " recording speed so a fine has to be paid  and points given or awareness course attended.

Of course these Police letters have "Wound them up " .  The number takers are doing what they will consider to be a good bit of voluntary work making their village safer and good on them .

 However if  people   now have to live with being on the Police data base as a result of going to their particular village and are so annoyed about it they don't want to go their village  again .. That looks likely to result in a loss of a services to the village IMO . Maybe you all think the  "Number taking "by people sitting near "Light Up  Speed Signs " and sending a log of numbers to the Police is a good thing for the retired to be doing with their time ? Subject of another Post perhaps ?

[woolybanana]

Don't worry too much, Fredo, the cold weather will soon drive them inside where they can boast of the summer of '13 when they fought back the hordes of boy racers from the village, whilst they count their gains in the current property insanity over a mug of Milo and Crossroads.

[Frederick]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Don't worry too much, Fredo, the cold weather will soon drive them inside where they can boast of the summer of '13 when they fought back the hordes of boy racers from the village, whilst they count their gains in the current property insanity over a mug of Milo and Crossroads.[/quote]

Worry ..........Not me mate .....That's one thing  I don't do ....My life is free of worries I am pleased to say

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Frederick"][quote user="Russethouse"]I can't help thinking there is some irony here...how many times do we hear people talk about a lack of community these days, say how people used to look out for each other etc....yet here we have people who perceive a problem on their patch and have volunteered their time to do something about it and they get derided for it by people who have actually done the same... ( volunteered to do something about a problem)

My bet is a significant number of both groups are pensioners and since they have the time there is nothing wrong with that.

I guess if, instead of looking out for motorists who were above the speed limit, these people were busy cuffing the ears of apple scrumpers or similar that would be OK......[/quote]

 We seem to have shot off at a tangent here  into the realms of "boy racers " belting through villagers....reasons for volunteering being  to get to  heaven and brownie points .......and nasty people withdrawing labor   ... All getting away from the point.. The thing is drivers whatever they may be doing at the time Due to the action of the  "Number takers " in a few villagers have now had their details put into a County Police data base and stored  for "targeting  " at a later should the Police hear from "Number takers "  within the County again 

They have not been stopped  by the Police . This is not as a result of a "Speed camera " recording speed so a fine has to be paid  and points given or awareness course attended.

Of course these Police letters have "Wound them up " .  The number takers are doing what they will consider to be a good bit of voluntary work making their village safer and good on them .

 However if  people   now have to live with being on the Police data base as a result of going to their particular village and are so annoyed about it they don't want to go their village  again .. That looks likely to result in a loss of a services to the village IMO . Maybe you all think the  "Number taking "by people sitting near "Light Up  Speed Signs " and sending a log of numbers to the Police is a good thing for the retired to be doing with their time ? Subject of another Post perhaps ?

[/quote]

What I think is that if they hadn't been speeding their number wouldn't be on record - do you honestly think these drivers only go above the speed limit when they are volunteering?

The ' I made a mistake but I'm going to take it out on the vulnerable people I have been helping' stance is beyond childish and peevish. IMHO

Yes of course they are annoyed, and they would have been even more annoyed if it HAD been a policeman with a 'hairdryer' ........

[PaulT]

I will not use the quote option RH as it would look very messy.

But I agree wholeheartedly with you - they do not just speed when on voluntary work and as I said in a previous post are the speed limits being reduced because of speeding.

Drove through St Gaudens the other day and suddenly saw the two gendarmes with the speed gun. I did not get waved in as I was not exceeding the speed limit. On my way back, there was a car coming the other way and suddenly the officer without the gun leapt in to the road and waved the driver in. I wonder if he would have preferred it to have been a speed sign and just a letter?

There are numerous instances of speeders - take Mr Chris Huhne who had three speeding convictions so got his wife to take the fourth, proving that some people will not stop speeding even when their licence is in jeopardy.

 

[YCCMB]

What is quite funny about this whole sorry tale is that manifestly these people believe they will avoid any further speeding issues purely by avoiding the village in question. Do they seriously believe that, having been caught speeding once, they will be immune to any further action or prosecution by simply avoiding the village with its illuminated sign? These community actions are sanctioned by the police, and the days of the village bobby ended more or less with the last episode of "Dixon of Dock Green". They're now on a county database, I bet, and if they're stopped again for speeding anywhere in the locality they will get the points and the fine. Looks like shanks's pony or a push bike if they really intend to show the true extent of their protest! :-)

[idun]

Some people are whingers and ungrateful waste of spaces who use others without batting an eyelid!

Because some people don't give a monkeys and are just like that..... my Dad used to do this for years too, so I have heard the tales, and people are people are there are always some badun's.

And no one has mentioned that these drivers may be late, through no fault of their own and may just be pushing a couple of MPH above the speed limit and still driving safely, to make sure someone can get to their very important appointment on time. As Mr or Mrs X may have requested 'just' stopping at the news agent, or chemists or worse still the post office, because it suits them and to hell with anyone else....... and then taken an age. Or there has been an accident or road works....... and then the drivers and their charges are progressively late. ***

I am rather surprised by Quillan's post.  I do not know of one person in France in my entourage who has requested hospital transport if they had someone to take them as long as they have needed a simple taxi service.  But the norm is to get their other half, or family (often not applicable for us expats) to take them or even friends. If someone lives alone, then asking a friend to take a day off work would not be on. I realise that this service may be needed, but not if there is someone who can take them.

I don't know what state Mrs Q was in ofcourse, but if it was simple transport, why would a doctor use valuable health funds on someone who could get to the hospital under their own steam. Just because a service is available, does not mean to say that it should be dished out willynilly as it really does cost the state and mutualists a fortune.

***edit, wouldn't an ambulance put blues and twos on if needed?????? and then they can drive rather more quickly than allowed?

And why not put speed bumps or put down some of that 'uneven type' bit of road as a reminder to motorists to slow down?????

[Russethouse]

Because Mrs Q doesn't drive and Q works!