The Peak of Callous Indifference...

[Gluestick]

I have been steaming about this all day........

Please See:

Surely, instead of handing vast sums to idle, non-working incomers, many with oodles of children, British society - if it enjoys any moral compass and compassion - could find its way to assist this devoted couple?

"Charity begins at home", goes the old saw.

Mrs Gluey and I have experience of the dire state of care at home...

[idun]

Yes, this happens, but I have to say that so far the care at home that I have encountered around here has been good because the carers have been caring and good, not only with my Dad but many friends have extremely ancient parents too who still live at home.

So the care has been good, however, I wouldn't trust my local social services with a pet cabbage, never mind making decisions about real people. I have only met ONE social worker I trust, which is not only not normal, but very very sad.

[andyh4]

Of course we can twist any bad news story to be the fault of immigrants/ the EU/ Junker/ Merkel/ Greece - delete as appropriate.

PS. The council has (rightly) reversed their decision and the two will be allowed to live together in the care home.

[lindal1000]

It's very sad when this happens but not a new or one off occurrence. In fact when I worked in elderly care there was absolutely no obligation for couples to be cared for together and this was much more common. Fortunately attitudes have moved on.

As far as I know there are no council funded care homes in the UK now..or very few. Care homes are privately run and they agree a price with local councils to provide care for residents who can't afford to self fund. Social workers are only involved when the people concerned have no finances, and no family to sort things out. The decision as to whether to accept a resident is up to the home. There's currently a shortage of care home places because the amount the local authorities will pay towards them is reducing and many just can't afford to operate, so lack of places is often an issue.

As to the relationship between immigration and places in care homes... well the low paid care workers are often migrant workers as it is very difficult to find good staff. The work is very hard, requires a lot of skill, dedication, willingness to work anti social hours for no extra money and pays little more than the minimum wage. Immigrants themselves make up a tiny proportion of care home residents because they tend to be younger, so lack of places is not down to them.

Perhaps they need to do what they do in France, which is to make children legally liable for the cost of care for their parents?

[Gluestick]

Andy and Lindell:

Sadly, you have both rather conflated and clearly not understood my earlier comment reference immigration.

I am a Fair Do's advocate.

Our state and society is the worst in Europe for its treatment and financial support of the elderly and infirm. Further more, I believe passionately, in the twin dictums, "First Come; First Served!" and "Charity Begins At Home!"

The Liberal-Left, and Vanessa and all the other motley gang of silk-knickered champagne socialists would, given their head, throw the doors of  Britain wide and advocate taking in every waif and stray from all over the World.

Surely, rather than throwing vast sums of State money at liberty-taking incomers, we suffer a duty to firstly, take care of our own? Which we are singularly failing dismally so to do. When the elderly and infirm face the prospect of either heating or eating, then something has gone awfully wrong.

The classic riposte of defenders of this inequity  is "Without the immigrants the health service would collapse!" etc, etc, etc.

Well, if the endless rafts of "Managers", recruited by Thatcher onwards, were fired ignominiously, and properly trained medical staff trained and paid reasonably, then the problem would not exist.

Ceylon as was "Solved" their labour problem on tea plantations, by importing hordes of Tamals to work at slave labour rates and live in appalling accommodation: because it was far cheaper.......that all worked out rather well, then didn't it?

Government and London Transport, also "Solved" their labour problem, post-WWII; fact was they were not willing to pay a decent wage and value staff. Enter the Windrush...

France, Spain and most other sensible countries recognised the criticality of transport infrastructure; Britain didn't. Since which point it has struggled, immensely and the Final Solution, was to throw it open to that wondrous caring, responsible "Market".

[lindal1000]

It's just that when you actually look at the statistics immigrants don't claim vast amounts in benefits that would otherwise be used to fund services for older people. (We all know what happened to the 350 million for the NHS). Even when there was more money around it was never used to fund elderly care and it has always been the first service to suffer when anything had to be cut. Ageism is at the root of the problem.

Doctors are paid a lot better in the Uk than they are in France, as are most healthcare staff, but it is the cost of living , in particular accommodation, that means in real terms they are worse off.

The issue with adequate skilled UK staff is that there just aren't enough suitable people applying, not enough training places and not enough sticking it out once qualified. The latter is probably the most pertinent. Out of my five classmates not one of us is currently working in the NHS, and we lasted a lot longer than many! Add in now that medical, nursing and healthcare students are going to have to self fund their training, I don't see the situation changing anytime soon, immigrants or no immigrants. I know Jeremy H thinks that suitable candidates are being turned away, but that just isn't true. We always had many more applicants than we needed but a good 50% you would not have wanted to place anywhere near a patient.

I agree with you about the appalling way elderly people are cared for, or not.. but linking the cause with what you see as the policies of the left is inconsistent. Thatcher started the destruction of the NHS, Tony Blair continued it and Jeremy Hunt is finishing it off.

Contrary to popular belief there were very few senior managers in the NHS. They never lasted long though. The good ones left for the private sector and those that didn't got shifted around and moved on so many times they never knew whether they were coming or going.

[Gluestick]

[quote user="lindal1000"]It's very sad when this happens but not a new or one off occurrence. In fact when I worked in elderly care there was absolutely no obligation for couples to be cared for together and this was much more common.[/quote]

Even Victorian workhouses, outside cities such as London, Manchester etc, tried to keep families together.

[quote] Fortunately attitudes have moved on.

As far as I know there are no council funded care homes in the UK now..or very few. Care homes are privately run................[/quote]

Another masterstroke  from the Wicked Witch of The West; AKA Thatcher.

That delightful specimen, Duncan Bannatyne, made his first pile in setting up a care home and then a chain of same.

I have known quite a number and have refused to act for all. The formula was:

Find a dilapidated  old drum; shove up thin partition walls and create tiny cells. Recruit unqualified minimum wage staff. Feed the old dodderers slops. Fill 'em full of tranquillizing meds to keep 'em quiet, supplied by a friendly GP. All that was needed to "prove" compliance, medically, was a retired staff nurse or similar, to pop in occasionally to say all was OK and, of course, to pick up a wedge.

The scandals and failures of various chains of these despicable places has been, repeatedly in the news, thus no more needs stating.

 [quote]The work is very hard, requires a lot of skill, dedication, willingness to work anti social hours for no extra money and pays little more than the minimum wage.[/quote]

Which makes them automatically, benefit-dependent.

Also; were do they train for these "Skills"? Care home proprietors certainly don't train them! Costs money!

[PaulT]

I watched a news item regarding the changes to benefits in the UK and they interviewed a woman who has 4 children moaning that she will have to go out to work due to the drop in the benefit stating that really she needs to be at home to look after the children - no mention was made of the father / fathers.

There is also a programme on about High Court enforcement officers. They sometimes evict a woman and her child / children due to unpaid rent. They sometimes call the father to help, obviously, the fathers no longer live with the women but often the father is nowhere to be seen. How much are the fathers contributing to the support of their children?

[idun]

 Maybe I was brought up differently to some, but I was told that if you look after the pennies the £'s look after themselves, it is as true as it always was.

There is no free money, and I am sick to death of the politicians thinking that it is for some things and not for others.

OK so they are back together, IF that is what they both wanted, then good for them. I know quite a lot of old people and when one had to go into care, the other gave a sigh of relief. It should be arranged couple by couple and frankly the family do not always see the reality, in even their parents lives. So many actors in this game of life. 

[Hoddy]

I get really angry at non-resident fathers lack of sense of responsibility for their children. I know some do contribute properly to their children's upkeep, but many don't. My ex son-in-law pays £7 per week towards the upkeep of his two daughters despite the fact that he has a thriving business. The CSA (or whatever its successor is called) is completely useless. We need a change in attitude.

[Gluestick]

Could not agree more, Hoddy!

Seems today, the feckless are unable to keep the old "Trouser Snake" (to use Oz strine), under control.

And thereafter, expect the hard working taxpaying moral majority to pay for their louche and socially destructive behaviour.

[:@]

[Hoddy]

In some ways it's even worse than you think Gluestick. I'm talking about two children born within a marriage and whose father, after the divorce, was suddenly unable to earn a living and so had unemployment benefit. My daughter, a hard working fairly well qualified professional, ended up paying income tax towards his (fake) unemployment pay. As I already said the CSA are useless and no-one in government seems to care.

[Gluestick]

Bearing in mind I am a qualified accountant, then I would have fought that one in tribunal, pro bono, and billed  HMRC for fees post a win result.

[Hoddy]

I'm sorry to have to tell you that you would have to get in the queue of people who think they could have succeeded, Gluestick. The 'forensic' accountant established that his lifestyle did not match his alleged income which is done mostly in cash. The CSA found in the ex-wife's favour by many thousands of pounds, but were unable to collect from him because he had no assets. By this time he had moved into a new girlfriend's house and declared he had no assets or job.

I am convinced that there is some organisation that helps men like him wriggle out of their obligations. They certainly know the law at least as well as barristers do.

On the good side my daughter can hold her head high and know that she can paddle her own canoe financially.

The trouble is when people talk about 'single parents' they forget about people like her with evil ex-husbands and that she bears no responsibility for people who don't pay their dues to society.

[Gluestick]

[quote] The 'forensic' accountant established that his lifestyle did not match his alleged income which is done mostly in cash.[/quote]

So, report him to the Serious Crimes Squad, since from what you say he is committing serious offences under both Proceeds of Crime Act and is money laundering, both offences all accountants in public practice are bounden to report; My institute, for example, are authorised under this legislation for what is called AML (Anti-Money Laundering) regime and I can be fined huge amounts (£50K >) and imprisoned for failing to notify, in writing.

Surprised the forensic accountant failed to do so.......

Since what this errant man is doing, clearly, is not pay income tax etc. And in all probability, false accounting.

Dodgy barsteward: I hate them with a passion.

[:@]