Buying on the Internet

[IAN_S]

Please can anyone advise me on the following problem I have.

A couple of weeks ago I thought it might be fun to buy a metal detector, never having used one in my life!

I searched for UK sites and found one that seemed to be what I wanted. They had a full range of new detectors and some used models.

Against the used ones was a "details" button that took me to the description of the new models. This decription included a number of accessories.

The price of the new + accessories was £199 and the used £149.

I decide to buy a used one and placed the order online which was acknowledged immediately.

When I received the goods all there was in the box was the detector and no accessories. I emailed the company concerned and I append below the various communications to show that I am not making this up!

On 17 Sep 2004 at 14:03, [email protected] wrote:

>

> > Thank you for the order you placed today through our website. Your

> > order number is DR0904N10063 and the total order value in Pounds

> > Sterling is # 169.

> >

> > Ordered by: Mr Ian Sutherland

> >

> > Delivery to:

> > 2 Place de la Liberation(full address erased)

> >  France

> > Order details:

> >

> > Used detector

> > Bounty Hunter Tracker IV

> > Cost in Sterling inc VAT: # 149

> >

> > Order delivery charge: # 20

> >

> > Total including VAT and delivery: # 169

> >

> >

> > If you have any queries about your order please phone +44 (0)1959

> > 571255 during office hours or email us at [email protected]

> > quoting your order number (DR0904N10063).

===============

----- Original Message -----

> From: <[email protected]>

> To: "Joan Allen Detectors Direct" <[email protected]>

> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 1:17 PM

> Subject: Re: Order Number DR0904N10063

>  I received the detector today but found no headphones or digging tool as

> per the details described in your site. Bearing in mind the new price of

> this detector it's not very good value is it?

> > Regards

> > Ian Sutherland

===================

On 24 Sep 2004 at 14:13, Joan Allen Electronics wrote:

> Ian,

>

> As you have purchased a Bounty Hunter Tracker IV at the reduced price of  #149, it was despatched without the accessories which form the full package at #199. The detector we advertised was described as 'Used', but we have in fact sent you a brand new unused detector with a full warranty, so I don't really think the value for money is poor.

>  Please call us on 01959 574234 if you have any further queries.

>  Best regards,

> Martin Purcell

===============

Martin

Well, you amaze me. At the very least you should have told me what you were going to do and I could have made another decision. Your website then is totally misleading and as far as I am concerned I am sitting here in rural France without what I was expecting. The fact that this dectector is new is irrelevant as that is not what I ordered.

Regards

Ian Sutherland

=================

Do you think I am being unreasonable to expect them to send the accessories that were described in the website? If they don't, what can I do about it from here?

 

 

[Blackadder<IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Blackadder<BR>Keighley and Creuse]

Seems to be an offence under the mis sale of goods act here. In as much as they have specifically described an item and accessories for £149 and then sold a differant item without accessories. Mention in a polite e-mail to them that you are looking into the offences under s of g legislation and look forward to hearing their explanation. You will obviously then have to back this up if they say   'well go for it mate'   and speak to Citizens Advice etc. Could be difficult and they may well play on the fact that you are hundreds of miles away in France and hardly likely to come back to Britain at a cost inexcess of £150 to claim back £149!

[Sashabel]

Hi Ian

Did you pay by credit card?  If so, you may have a better chance by following this through with them.

Sasha

[Baz]

Ian,

I buy often on the Internet and the one thing I always look at is the Company's returns policy. It appears in this case that Joan Allen do not publish any and I would not do business with this company.

If you paid with a UK credit card then report this to card provider as you should be covered by them because the purchase was over £100. Alternatively, as I am sure you do not want the expense of trying to return the goods and you have apparently been sent a new detector. Why not try to come some amicable arrangement to purchasing the missing items and ask them to deliver for free. The company has been going since 1968 so I think it is reasonable to suggest that they must be reputable. I would now phone and ask to speak  either to a Manager or the Owner as I think you are more likely to get a satisfactory result than just e-mailing.

I hope it works out alright.

Baz

[Russethouse]

If you can not get satisfaction, write to them, explaining they did not supply the goods as described, give them 14 days to complete the order. Make sure you keep a copy of the letter and send it so it is signed for. (it might be a good idea to find out either the owner or sales directors name and address it to them specifically)

In the meantime contact trading standards in their local town.

Hope you can get it all sorted amicably

[LesLauriers]

The goods you received were neither "as described" nor "fit for purpose" (try digging a hole with the detector!).

It was the suppliers decision to substitute a "new" detector not yours! I would send them another email, pointing out that you are dissatisfied for the above reasons and ask what they propose to do.

If they are unable to see that they are bang out of order, then email the trading standards office local to them, seeking their advice on the transaction and enquiring about the small claims court procedure. Copy the supplier on your email and hopefully they will see sense!

As already stated your credit card company may also help.

Good luck and good hunting!

 

[Weedon]

[quote]Please can anyone advise me on the following problem I have. A couple of weeks ago I thought it might be fun to buy a metal detector, never having used one in my life! I searched for UK sites and fo...[/quote]

In the examples you quote you say that the new one includes accessories but the used machine did not appear to mention any accessories unless I did not read your posting correctly.  It would appear to me as if they have sent you a new model as they had no used ones anyway and as a result you did not get the accessories as they were only supplied with tha new model at the new model price.  I would suggest that instead of trying to get all "heavy"  with them that you simply phone them and speak to the Martin person and do a deal in your favour for the headphones, the digging tool will only be a garden trowel anyway I suspect.

I do have a metal detector and I think you will find that headphones whilst not essential are certainly desirable in order to eliminate general noise.

Joan Allen as an organisation is the accepted leader in the supply of these machines in the UK and you should find them more than happy to keep you "sweet" if you deal with them in the correct manner.

Weedon(53)

[Andrewjspencer]

you could try passing the details to Kent County Council's Trading Standards department who may be interested in following this up.

A visit from the "Council" might get the action you want - i.e. Accessories in the post!?

Try the website - http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/kent/

Bonne chance!

[IAN_S]

Thank you all for your replies.

I paid by Mastercard on my Credit Agricole card because they would only ship to the card address. This used to happen a lot in the past but most good sites now allow for an alternative. How else do you send gifts?

To make things clearer, the website shows the details for the used detector to be the same as for new,just that it is cheaper, or at least it does not say they do not apply.

Anyway the latest offer they have made is for me to return what I have at my expense and they will send me what I originally asked for. Is it worth it? No, I don't think so. I will try and buy what I need here.

My objection to all this is a matter of principle really, the monetary value is peanuts.

[Mazan]

You should be relying on the UK Distance Selling regulations in this matter, not on the Sale of Goods regulations.

Your rights are very clear: having bought at a distance and been supplied with incorrect goods the vendor must give you a full refund and pay all carriage charges. There is no room for interpretation in this and the vendor knows it.

Just contact the vendor and explain that you want a complete refund and return under the Distance Selling regulations and that failing this you will be contacting his local Trading Standards department and starting "small claims" proceedings in the County Court for the full amount including carriage two ways plus your legal costs and full compensation for your wasted time.

He already knows that you will win.

 

[Weedon]

[quote]You should be relying on the UK Distance Selling regulations in this matter, not on the Sale of Goods regulations. Your rights are very clear: having bought at a distance and been supplied with inco...[/quote]

What you say in your reply is so very true and is what makes the UK such a "happy" and "pleasant" place to live in!!

I still prefer the old days when you bought a "pup" and learned a valuable lesson from doing so and is also why I prefer living here and doing my "own thing".

Keep asserting your rights and filling the small claims courts but leave me to day dream.

Weedon(53)

[Teamedup]

As if no one will rip you off here! Think again, so what will doing your own thing be, find the person who did this and what, do their knees, make threats, or just put it down to 'life'..............it can be very hard to get customer satisfaction legally here, if there is a problem.

[Will]

I must be missing something here, because it doesn't sound like a bad deal to me. You have, in effect, saved yourself £50 by not paying the manufacturer's prices for headphones and a trowel - or do the accessories actually consist of more than that? I know nothing about metal detectors so I stand to be corrected.

Good luck whatever happens.

[Weedon]

[quote]As if no one will rip you off here! Think again, so what will doing your own thing be, find the person who did this and what, do their knees, make threats, or just put it down to 'life'..............i...[/quote]

I quite agree that to be here does not make me immune to being ripped off as you put it but I prefer not to rely on "nannyism" for every little mishap that might befall me.  Life is too short to stuff mushrooms and sausage skins because after all said and done we are talking about a piddling £150 quids worth not thousands of pounds of real estate with respect to the original poster who simply asked for opinions.

The small claims courts are clogged with tuppenny ha'penny bits of "its not the value its the principle" irrelevance and where is the benefit of that to man or beast and who pays in the long run.  I would suggest that that is one of many reasons why a lot of people like me have upped sticks and got out.

Weedon(53)

 

[IAN_S]

Weedon, I agree with you that it is hardly the stuff of heady finance, I think my real grievance is that of frustration that someone would arbitrarily decide what they would supply knowing full well that I am in France and can do very little about it without going to the lengths that Mazan describes, which I am sure are correct.

C'est la vie eh?

[Mazan]

The whole point of my message was that you won't actually need to do any of what I explained. The vendor will already know that he is in the wrong and the reminder that you know your rights will be enough to get the result you want.

I've lost count of the number of times I have used my knowledge of law and procedure to get a speedy refund: the last was for £500 just a week ago. All it cost me was the price of a phone call. I knew perfectly well that I wouldn't have to start legal proceedings though I did have to go via the UK FSA to lodge my complaint. Without that call I would probably have waited for months to get my money back.

As for the sum involved: many people in France and the UK work an entire week or more to earn £150 net so whilst some may consider it not worth bothering about others certainly would be bothered. Those who can't be bothered to make a phone call to save £150 are welcome to do as they wish.

[Weedon]

(your quote)  As for the sum involved: many people in France and the UK work an entire week or more to earn £150 net so whilst some may consider it not worth bothering about others certainly would be bothered. Those who can't be bothered to make a phone call to save £150 are welcome to do as they wish.

 

Without wishing to sound a complete failure in my former life, many are the weeks when it cost me £150 a week to keep my business afloat over the 30 years I ran it so I do appreciate the value of money.  What I am driving at is that there are more pleasant ways of achieving a result so that both parties can carry on without thinking that life needs to be total s**t.  Very often a simple phone call can end up with both parties closing on friendly terms and if your case is presented succinctly the other person will see the unfairness of it and for the sake of public relations make good their mistake.

LOL as you have been on the receiving end of so many possible scams could I interest you in my latest get rich quick scheme?

Life should not have to be a war, we are all on the same side are we not?

As the original poster said, c'est la vie.

Weedon(53)