Clarkkent Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 In today's Le Monde there is a story which makes me very unhappy. It seems some hunters, out with their dogs and guns and looking for sangliers, took it upon themselves to kill a female bear named Cannelle.Cannelle, it seems, was the last remaining female pyrenean bear. These noble hunters have despatched a sub-species to history. As Le Monde puts it " ... [this] shows once again the unwillingness of France to accept the cohabitation with animals living in their natural habitat ..."This happened on the day that Americans showed their contempt for the well-being of the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Don't forget she had a cub. Which has gone missing.The telly news interviewed the folk in the village and they just basically said so what. It is their long held 'right' to shoot bears. Strange how this hero disappeared pretty damm quick. The tourists heard the shots but saw no one....They have dicovered that the Spanish bears have nearly the same genes so they are hoping to 'import' some.Not, I sincerely hope, for shooting practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creusois Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Another Dodo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaysBasque Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 First of all, I think that this whole affair is utterly scandalous and it made me very, very angry. However, there is a bit of misinformation. Canelle was the last indiginous Pyreneean female, but there are others which have been re-introduced, so the race is not going to die out just yet. The second thing is that the hunter who killed the bear was defending himself, as she attacked him in defense of her cub. At least, that's his story. I do believe that he was shooting in self-defense, what I can't understand is that they were hunting there at all, after the hunting society of Urdos had been informed that there was a female bear with a cub in the area. All in all, this whole story is a tragedy, and I do hope that they will succeed in finding the cub before it is too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piprob Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 I wonder who would be most scandalised if we made a comparison between the gun lobby in the USA and hunting lobby in France? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 There are around 20 odd breading pairs in the Pyrenees and quite a few of them are tagged. Their actual locations is kept secret although we have heard them calling in the spring.I was under the impression that the hunters are informed of their general location so they are not disturbed but then I would have thought that the hunter way their natural enamy but then I don't know anything about the subject really.It is however a terrible thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalpa Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 [quote]In today's Le Monde there is a story which makes me very unhappy. It seems some hunters, out with their dogs and guns and looking for sangliers, took it upon themselves to kill a female bear named C...[/quote]This isn’t hunting, it’s vandalism.Piprob<< I wonder who would be most scandalised if we made a comparison between the gun lobby in the USA and hunting lobby in France? >>As far as politicians in either country not wanting to alienate powerful sections of their electorates… I think you’re spot on. And that's why the Canelles of France - and Spain - aren't truly protected. There isn't the political will.Carole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 [quote]There are around 20 odd breading pairs in the Pyrenees and quite a few of them are tagged. Their actual locations is kept secret although we have heard them calling in the spring. I was under the imp...[/quote]Learn English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 [quote]Another Dodo?[/quote]Contradiction in terms?But seriously, it's hard to condemn the hunter if the bear story is true, and with no other evidence I suppose it has to be accepted. I heard that in the first week of the hunting season in Normandy they got a cow and a hunter (sort of score-draw) - the hunter was wearing a high-visibility jacket apparently (don't know about the cow). I think in both cases the shooters let fly at a noise... Didn't a hunter shoot his son in a similar accident a while back?I'm not morally outraged by hunting (Catholic view of animals?) but this tendency to blatt anything that moves is very worrying. When we were in France recently we had a hunter just walking up the lane with his dog, cheery wave and on he goes, but not on our land or shooting over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Absolutely, I coexist very happily with hunters although it took a lot of getting used to; I used to be terrified of both the dogs and the guns but quite illogically.There are bad hunters who don't comply with the legislation, just as there are habitual drunk drivers - happily not in my little corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 [quote]Absolutely, I coexist very happily with hunters although it took a lot of getting used to; I used to be terrified of both the dogs and the guns but quite illogically. There are bad hunters who don't ...[/quote]Of the local hunters I have met they are all totally inebriated by 9am and staggering around looking for the next unfortunate creature to blast away at, before driving home sozzled.Hunters were not meant to be allowed any where near the bears and were hunting illegally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chouette Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 I truly despair at the human race Homo sapien means wise man - yeah right!As I said on a previous thread about hunting in the Culture section of this forum, how anyone can derive pleasure from killing animals is beyond me. We no longer have to go out and hunt and kill animals in order to survive and therefore the fact that people go out and kill just for the fun of it when there is no other reason seems totally sick to me. People can dress up hunting as much as they like as being some kind of noble tradition, but it cuts no ice with me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 There were reports in our local paper in late winter/ early spring about new lambs and sheep in the Haute Pyrenees being attacked by bears. Local shepherds were taking defensive action. I know that this is different from the present situation but bears can be a threat too. Like foxes in sheep-rearing areas of uk. Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkkent Posted November 6, 2004 Author Share Posted November 6, 2004 There were reports in our local paper in late winter/ early spring about new lambs and sheep in the Haute Pyrenees being attacked by bears. Local shepherds were taking defensive action. I know that this is different from the present situation but bears can be a threat too. Like foxes in sheep-rearing areas of uk. Pat.But foxes are common and bears are very, very rare and to compare the risk from each as though it were equivalent is clouding the issue. The number of lambs taken by bears will be miniscule in comparison to losses to foxes. The locations of bears are constantly monitored and shepherds will be given warnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 [quote]There were reports in our local paper in late winter/ early spring about new lambs and sheep in the Haute Pyrenees being attacked by bears. Local shepherds were taking defensive action. I know that t...[/quote]TV huggers get me annoyed - there has never been a properly recorded case of a fox taking a lamb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Crikey, Dog! I am probably one of the most anti fox hunt members of the forum but I don't doubt that foxes attack lambs - thats nature I'm afraid.Chouette - I see a big difference between hunting for pleasure (often foxes) and for food. Completely different argument as far as I am concerned esp for mammals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 [quote]Crikey, Dog! I am probably one of the most anti fox hunt members of the forum but I don't doubt that foxes attack lambs - thats nature I'm afraid.Chouette - I see a big difference between hunting for...[/quote]Just goes to show what TV huggers know...Foxes do not attack fit healthy lambs.People that keep sheep and bred them and do not look after them properly often have still birth lambs or weak lambs that are taken by foxes because they are too lazy to take care of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 You know different farmers to me Dog, I think we'll agree to differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teejay Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 [quote]You know different farmers to me Dog, I think we'll agree to differ.[/quote]The previous poster was not far from the truth in stating that weak lambs are left frequently for the buzzards and foxes to see them off. More lambs are lost to careless farming than to hungry foxes. Since I have witnessed plenty of the above incidents I know it to be true. Foxes are blamed far too frequently to cover up the frailties of man. Nature is pretty gruesome seen close up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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