Who understands the EU constitution?

[Jo53]

OK, so does anyone have any idea what the proposed EU constitution would mean? I really don't know which way I'd vote (if I could), because I just don't have enough information. The reason to vote 'yes' seems to be that it will make the new Europe of 25 function more efficiently. What are the measures that the French and Dutch 'non' campaigns are so set against? Would the constitution bring about any important changes?

Any enlightenment, anyone?

Jo

[Coco]

I was going to ask the same question myself.  Around here there are plenty of posters saying "Je garde la France, NON a la Turquie" (Sp??)

I think the NONs have jumped on the bandwagon of not wanting Turkey in the EU and the inherent fear that a lot of French people seem to have of muslims.  So, by the way people are talking around here, there seems to be a lot of support for the NON vote, but I don't think it's an informed vote at all, as the whole issue of Turkey joining is not really anything to do with the consitution, but that's the way it seems to be getting pushed round here. 

I'd really like to know what the implications either way are.  But I don't have a vote so does it really matter - after all, I only live here

[Miki]

I lent the dossier when I went to the UK last weekend as I thought it would be a good idea to read through it on the ferry.....I got completely cheesed off pretty quickly and so thought, no vote, no comment and left it.

Now that might sound a bit of a no caring attitude but it really is extremely long winded and I somehow felt that if hundreds of politicians can not at least be given a free and democratic vote to decide for us all, then what chance have the rest of us got when confronted by some rambling bluddy huge dossier. Or of course one could listen to politicians who are more interested in toeing the party line and that is as much use as a chocolate teapot !

On French TV tonight, a young chap stood up and put it just right, well to me anyway "Why can't it be made as simple as possible but still keep all the main points but with none of the high brow, so that the normal French person can grasp what it is all about"

Coco, personally to be honest, I think it pretty much correct to not let us vote, for many immigrants we are in transit and so is that fair that we are given a vote in a country that we may well leave tomorrow ?

Now as for aiming the Maire from his position, that's different !!

[letrangere]

Coco, personally to be honest, I think it pretty much correct to not let us vote, for many immigrants we are in transit and so is that fair that we are given a vote in a country that we may well leave tomorrow ?

I know several Brits who after living and working in the States for the requisite number of years have applied for passports.  On the first occasion, my knee jerk reaction was a powerful WHY, what's wrong with a British one?  Then they explained that they paid US taxes so they wanted to be able to vote, it was as simple as that, hence need of passport. 

Re EU Constitution: My mind's made up as to how I'd vote if I could but then I think like the poster, "what is it all about exactly"?  I suspect many are shamefully ignorant of what precisely they'll be voting oui ou non for on Sunday.

Re Turkey:  You don't think this is a separate issue, or at least it should be?  Incidentally, it's not just supposedly Christian Europeans who question Turkey joining, you should hear what many Muslim Arabs have to say on the subject.  They rant that if Turkey can be classed as Europe, why stop there?  Surely Lebanon has as strong, if not stronger, case for inclusion and possibly Syria too (quelle horreur)?  But I digress...

M

[SaligoBay]

Well, Marine Le Pen seems to know what it's all about.   Did anyone see her on the TV the other night telling us why we should vote NO?   Just about as scary as her daddy!

I know that people seem to approve of referendums as a chance for The People to give their opinion, but this is just such a big mess, there's no way that any result is a true reflection of what The People want.   Because nobody understands what they're voting for!!!!   

Even the Turkey issue...... those posters for "Europe OUI, Turquie NON", aren't they for Bruno Mégret's party, he who used to be LePen's big pal?    Wait a minute, I thought LePen was anti-Europe, so off into some research about the Mégret/Le Pen story..... but then you still don't know what the constitution actually says (if anything) about Turkey (if I vote YES, will my village be invaded by a million Turkish workers by this time next week?)...... and so on.

Then all the other issues, employment, unemployment, gay rights, where do you start.  I think most people are latching onto one issue of interest to them and voting on that basis.

A yes/no vote is ludicrously over-simplified for such a hugely complicated question. 

What will I be voting?  My vote is that la Fête des Mères, and a day of being spoiled, sounds FAR more attractive than reading a bloated constitution written by bloated politicians! 

[Poolguy]

The debate in my family seems hot and heated - all of them except me are eligible to vote.

By an large the consensus seems to be... NON.

The reason is that the ideology and the phraseology is clearly skewed toward advancing big business across Europe. This may not seem bad in the first analysis - meaning more jobs, prosperity and what not, but it does seem that in this case its all at the expense of the common man - his priveledges and rights are being erroded.

Most would support the idea of the Constitution but no one likes the offering on this occasion. I am fairly sure that France will send it packing.

We'll see tomorrow

Andrew

 

 

[Poolguy]

as an aside...

None in my Family (extended) are concerned with Turkey joining the EU at this time..

Andrew

[SaligoBay]

The reason is that the ideology and the phraseology is clearly skewed toward advancing big business across Europe.

A neighbour had a study of the vocabulary of the constitution, and apparently the most common word by far was "finance".   Or something like that, can't really remember, but their view is certainly that it's aimed to please the Moneyed people at the top.

[Mpprh]

Hi

just worth saying that French electors have received an information pack with :

A precis of the constitution

The constitution itself

"Oui" and "Non" slips

 

The constitution is pretty unreadable for me, and I suspect for many French people !

Peter

 

[Lori]

Just in case someone wants to read it in English (and hasn't). Here it is. Quite long and, to me, a bit confusing..

http://europa.eu.int/constitution/en/allinone_en.htm

[Deby]

I would be very surprised if we get a resounding OUI tomorrow.

The EU Constitution is all about big businesses, freedom of movement/workers/competition.  Ha, competition is word which the French don't do.  Their little laws prevent this continuosly. 

Here is one of the issues up for discussion:

 CAP - the common agricultural policy that IS the big issue, what a nightmare.  All those subsidies however, what I do like about the way it works in France is farming is less intensive and the consumer benefits, farming is not driven as much by competition (market forces ) you know SUPERMARKETS!  Those gits in the UK have too much of a stronghold there.  So it goes on.  Which is the best economic method - competition or pleasing the consumer.  So difficult isn't  it and that is just one crucial element of the constitution.

Turkey:  Who would give the Turks a job then, who has a job to give them.  I would like the new wave of immigrants to see if they could claim welfare.  I think the UK need to be more concerned about this than France.

Deby (17 Charente Maritime)

[Coco]

Just been watching News 24 where some French expert thinks it will be tight but still erring towards NON.  They then spoke to a Dutch expert who says that the Turkey issue (right or wrong) is having a big influence on the Dutch voters.  Apparently there the NO voters number about 60%; however, the Dutch parliament have the final say and they intend to vote yes unless more than 60% of the electorate vote no, so it all seems a bit arbitary really.

So what's going to happen if both countries vote No?