More attacks in London today

[chocccie]

There are reports of further attacks in London, happening right now.

 

Info so far…. .Shepherds Bush, Warren Street and Oval have been evacuated. 

 

Reports of a nail bomb in Warren Street, and three other explosions – seems they may be detonators only, and not explosions.

 

Incident on a bus in Hackney – police in attendance.

 

Much confusion, but seems NOT to be as serious an attack as two weeks ago.

 

May I suggest that people refrain form posting comment and opinion here, and leave this thread open to those posting information.

[chocccie]

Bus in Hackney had it's windows blown out by an explosion - no reported injuries.

Beeb is reporting that the tube explosions were indeed detonators only.

will keep you posted .....

[peebee]

Latest news by Beeb is that University College Hospital has been cordoned off by police

[chocccie]

Reports that the bombs may not have been dummies, but did contain explosives and were improperly made, therefore did not detonated properly.

Police have extended the cordon around Warren Street to 400 metres.

Confirmed no injuries on the bus explosion, which was in Hackney Road, Bethnal Green.

Transport system being closed down, people being requested to stay where they are for the time being.

This is NOT as serious as the previous attacks, though people are hurt.

 

 

[Dick Smith]

Things now getting back to normal, just seen the Met press conference (my gods, where do the journalists dredge up such inane questions, and why do they keep asking the same ones?) and it seems we had a lucky escape. I left work pretty sharpish, I must admit, because I didn't want to get caught up in transport closures. Got home without any problems. It doesn't feel like 7th July.

[Renaud]

From the little I have heard, the bombers sound a bit Mini-Me.

[Dick Smith]

I wouldn't joke about it - it looks as though we were very lucky today. Remember - we have to be lucky every time, they only have to be lucky once.

[Iceni]

If the object of the exercise was chaos, not killing, they succeeded. The fear of LU being targetted every Thursday is as bad as big bombs.

Perhaps NOW the Home Sec will reconsider the need for action against the likes of Abu Hamza (sp) preaching subversion iin the streets year after year at our expense.

John

 

[Nick Trollope]

I have avoided this subject up to now, but I will jump in before this thread gets too unmanageable;

I feel passionately about this (there is little that gets my blood boiling).

If George W and his poodle had not invaded Iraq and we (the Brits) were not still involved in this illegal war, then over many thousands of people, including 54 in London would be alive today.

Plenty of other things to say, but Brico Depot have a sale on.

 

[Miki]

[quote]I have avoided this subject up to now, but I will jump in before this thread gets too unmanageable; I feel passionately about this (there is little that gets my blood boiling). If George W and his p...[/quote]

So then, you can safely say that if we had not gone in to Iraq, we would not have terrorists in the UK and no acts of terrorism. This latests wave of atrocities may well be due to our involvement in Iraq but I am afraid if you think that is the only reason for these inhumain actions, then why have there been such large numbers of bombings going on all over the world. Most countries of which have never been involved in Iraq.

For instance, Spain changed governments who were for pulling out but still had terrorists commit similar atrocities. England will always be a target for many terrorist groups and all with their own agenda to main and kill. To blame anyone is futile, it doesn't matter who was in charge or who will lead the country in the futute, to simply think barabric acts of terrorism hinges just on Iraq is purely ridicolous.

[Deimos]

Quote (Nicktrollope): “If George W and his poodle had not invaded Iraq and we (the Brits) were not still involved in this illegal war, then over many thousands of people, including 54 in London would be alive today.”

I agree. However, I has surprised me over the last week or so to read that both Tony B and Mr Straw both dispute this strongly. An “expert report” from Chatham House (former Institute for International Affairs – see link below) agreed with the conclusion about the Iraq War increasing the likelihood of the UK being attacked – yet both Mr Blair, and Mr. Straw went on record refuting this (presumably knowing better themselves). To me the link seemed obvious (though maybe not proven) and I’m amazed that the British government cannot see this (or even admit the possibility).

In fact only a month before the London attacks the government were warned by the Joint Terrorist Analysis Centre that "events in Iraq are continuing to act as motivation and a focus of a range of terrorist-related activity in the UK” (http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardianweekly/story/0,,1532472,00.html).

Ian

[Nick Trollope]

I can't claim that the UK would be a haven of peace and tranquility - nor did I. However, as Ian so rightly points out, Iraq must be a major factor. I stand by my point that - in the balance of probabilities - this situation would not have arisen if we had followed the French lead.

There are extremists in every country, society and social group. Had the London bombers considered who they were targetting, I bet that they would have discovered that more than 50% of their victims supported their cause (if it is a "get out of Iraq" one). I have no sympathy for warmongers of any hue. Killing innocents is abhorrent and counterproductive - I bet that TB's popularity has improved no end in the last 2 weeks. Iraq is his Falklands, perhaps - but of course, Maggie had the Country on her side...

What also gets my goat is tha fact that $ky have started calling the London bomings of 2 weeks ago "7-7". Sickening.

 

[Dick Smith]

Sorry, Nick, you are just plain wrong. The 2 attacks on the Twin Towers predated any US action in Afghanistan or Iraq, how about Spain, or Bali - you can't call them 'poodles' can you?

How about showing a bit of bottle and some support for those of us in this every day?

[Deimos]

Quote (Disk): “How about showing a bit of bottle and some support for those of us in this every day?”.

I think that associating the London Bombings to the Iraq/Afghanistan Wars has nothing to do with “lack of bottle” and in no way shows any lack of support for those of you living in London.

I my own opinions associating the London Bombings with the Iraq War involvement were personal opinion. However, the Chatham House (Institute for International Affairs) report, by a body of experts who have vast amounts of information and time to assess such things, also draws the same conclusions. At least one of UK enquiries after the Iraq War (Foreign Affairs whatever from memory) made the clear statement that the UK involvement in the Iraq War has increased the likelihood of terrorist attacks in the UK.

The bombings were tragic and nobody (that I have seen) anywhere on these forums has said anything to the contrary. However, apart from agreeing/disagreeing with the war itself, it is a quite fair question to ask whether Mr. Blair’s actions in involving the UK has helped or hindered security in the UK. Certainly some experts (see above) consider it made the UK a “more likely” target and thus made such events more probable. Given these “expert opinions” and the untruths about the justification for the war (e.g. non-existent WMDs, non-existent terrorist links, etc.) did Mr. Blair really act in the UK citizens best interests or rather just following his own personal agenda ?

Ian

[Miki]

"..... but of course, Maggie had the Country on her side."

Not with me and plenty of people I knew she didn't. It has been long proven that it was well known for a long time that Argentina were going to land troops on the Falklands. It could easily have been avoided but.................

Agree entirely with you Dick, too easy to simply say Iraq is the reason for this, even though Nick says "Iraq must be a major factor" your point raises the fact that countries not involved, are still targets for these attacks.

As for France, their reason was just as much to my mind, their own oil issues.

I agree about Sky though, the "Sun" of the airways. I find them awful opportunists and the way they describe and name incidents are appalling. They do report the news but I certainly prefer the way the BBC and ITV go about it.

Sky even had a vote about something to do with Muslims today, plain stupid

[Polycarpe]

Expressing viewpoints contrary to one's own is what freedom of speech is about and can't, per se, be seen as an indication that one is lacking in bottle or support.

The current horrors in London and Iraq, and the World Trade Centre, might be a symptom of years of marginalisation, fragmentation and a lack of communication between cultures and between the "haves" and the "have nots". While this makes murderous rage and frustration understandable it will never excuse or justify such attrocities. Maybe its time for "Jaw jaw, not war war".

I say all this as someone working at The Royal London, in Whitechapel, where most of the injured of the 7th July were taken. I speak as a Londoner (when not in 11) who uses the tube and bus networks everyday. I speak as a former Labour activist and voter who cannot believe Tony Blair's capacity for self-deception.

Time for a new approach, perhaps.

Rob

 

[Dick Smith]

Deimos I generally agree with you, but you are wrong to be linking these things, and now is not the time for that discussion. No-one on the other side wants to discuss and negotiate, so why do you? Will you compromise on your freedom? That's what I mean by showing some bottle.

It is very edgy in London just now - I'd rather know that people are supportive of me rather than starting to argue amnongst themselves, or wishing themselves out of the situation by blaming other people. I've got to get on those trains this afternoon - like a number of people on this forum - the whys and wherefores aren't very relevant.

[Miki]

Polycarpe said "...I speak as a former Labour activist and voter who cannot believe Tony Blair's capacity for self-deception.

Time for a new approach, perhaps."

Not entirely sure what this means ? What "new approach" are you talking about here ?

And I don't see how Tony Blair has a self deception, if he believes in something (and here I must say, I can't go along with all he says, that would be incredible, anyone ever known a PM one could go with all the way and I don't mean blindly either !)then he simply does what he feels is correct, rightly or wrongly. I was (am) also a socialist but have had to come to terms that the political world, we once knew has gone for good and a truer socialism will probably not be seen in the UK again but never say never, as they say. And so one has to choose more what party one doesn't want to rule and therefore not vote for, rather than the old days of voting simply for your normal choice.

[Deimos]

Maybe I did not express myself well. I was not proposing and negotiation with terrorists (mainly because I have no idea if it would help or hinder – beyond my knowledge). I can appreciate that things may be edgy in London at the moment but such discussion is critically important. If our leaders have not been acting in our interests then can we trust them to respond to such tragedies appropriately and effectively. Many of the questions about the Iraq War have remained unanswered because the UK government managed to delay the questions to the point where other things became higher priority.

Dick, I agree with you that personal freedom should not be compromised. However, there is always a risk under such circumstances that governments use these tragedies to introduce new restrictive laws on the basis of protecting our safety, though at the cost of our freedom. To disagree with such laws may be interpreted by some as “supporting terrorists” by making their job easier when it is more an argument against ineffective laws. Over the recent year we have seen several restrictions on personal freedoms and liberties (e.g. imprisonment without trial, without jury, without the “offender” having access to evidence, etc.) all in the name of protecting our safety. The government has assured us that this is essential yet the reasons and justification have to be kept secret from us. So we just have to trust them.

Ian

[pinkfluff<P>Big Wet Drops and Lots of Them, Are a Sure Sign of Rain!<P>]

Deimos you are not spanish are you (I dont think so)as they got a a slap from the murderers and gave in to them but MOST british have got a stronger spirit ie the blitz. dont forget even without WMD,s that bast**d gassed lots of Kurds I had a refugee living near my shop in the UK from Iraq the stories he told me (long time before the second gulf war) of hussein and how members of this guys family were taken away in the middle of the night and never returned, the guy is back in Iraq now living his life . my shop was in the middle of a muslim and hindu area and straight after nine eleven I saw lots muslim lads 20 year old guys lads who I thought were decent enough people cheering yes cheering very happy indeed that civilians had to jump of the burning towers it made me realise the difference between the two faiths is so great that there can never be peace. This was THE main factor in moving to France for me to a quiet hamlet away from the big citys that will be targeted