Idiots on AI

[YCCMB]

You can't post kittens full stop (not unless wrapped,correctly addressed and small enough to fit through the slot).

[Causette]

This is my first visit back to this forum for at least a year... I moved across to using the TF and AI fora when I found the atmosphere on here was becoming somewhat spiteful.   I thought I'd have another look to see if it was any more tolerant on here nowadays... ...!!

I too have had postings deleted on AI, often without the courtesy of an acknowledgement or explanation.  One deletion, was apparently because, in reply to a question, I gave the title and price of a book for sale that advertises brocantes and vide greniers in the region - yet 3 months later, a virtually identical reply has been posted by someone else!   But I have to say, although I do post on AI,  I don't visit the English run pubs, or buy overpriced baked beans; I'm legally registered to work and I have the 'joy' of paying my share of cotisations and taxes in France... oh, and I'm not an idiot.  

[Dick Smith]

Of course you can post kittens. You just have to wrap them properly.

[IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f338/dick_at_aulton/cats.jpg[/IMG]

[Will]

[quote user="Dicksmith"]At least they don't ban you for posting a picture of a kitten...
[/quote]

Dick, I came across this on the forum from which you were banned:

Quote from question to site admin- "why not just ban these people who cause you so much grief?"

Because then the accusations that we run a totalitarian regime where free speech is censored or barred, would turn from fantasy to reality, wouldn't they?

Personally, I'm an advocate of free speech, even if it's the freedom to speak ill of me, so banning someone whose major crime is to self-indulgently waste a lot of everyone's time, as opposed to actually contravening netiquette, seems Draconian and wrong.

So does that mean kittens are against netiquette? Perhaps somebody should pull the plug on sites like this http://www.rathergood.com/independent_woman/

[:D]

[Will]

[quote user="Causette"]

This is my first visit back to this forum for at least a year... I moved across to using the TF and AI fora when I found the atmosphere on here was becoming somewhat spiteful.   I thought I'd have another look to see if it was any more tolerant on here nowadays... ...!!

[/quote]

Causette - we are very tolerant here. As with any forum there are one or two people known to be a little on the reactionary side, but we have a code of conduct that is enforced. [;)]

As far as other forums are concerned, yesterday a new member at another place asked for names of good restaurants near a town she is visiting soon, not far from where I live. I gladly posted the names of the only two I would recommend wholeheartedly. Two other posts followed, giving the name of an English-run place nearby. Fair enough, but the Englishness wasn't mentioned. Now this is about the only English establishment I have eaten in while in France, so I knew from experience that although it isn't bad (the chef is French), there are at least three French-style restaurants near our maison secondaire in England that are more authentic. So I posted again, saying just that as the original questioner was new to the area, she might like something more typically French. As the questioner had posted again asking for phone number and booking information of the English-run place, I did the site owners a favour by pointing to the directory section of their site where the restaurant was mentioned, together with some other English ones. I fully expected one of my postings to be edited, but have just seen that the whole topic has been pulled. Yet there are discussions on the (dubious to me) merits of other English establishments (could that be because they advertise on the site?). Is that petty, or am I just being snobby?

[Russethouse]

 Funnily enough yesterday I saw a request for a restaurant recommendation in Brittany yesterday, one member actually posted something to the effect of:  'We live there, please find a restaurant near your own home, not ours'

Very friendly !!!

[Monika]

My appetite is whetted: how does one get on this Forum? I can get Anglo Info Normandy but can not see any link to any Forum.

[Will]

Monika - at the Normandy (or other) home page there is a link to 'forum' under 'our services' at the top of the right hand column. Further down the screen there is a list of latest forum  postings and a list of topic headings. Also, if you look right at the top of the screen, you will see a little drop-down menu headed 'more AngloInfos'.

Gay - funny you should mention that. I've just seen a posting on a Brittany forum where somebody has commented on using the Brittany Ferries discount card in the on-board waiter-service restaurant, and what must be the same friendly person has replied "I think you should eat in the cafeteria with us common folk.... and not save 10% on expensive food.... ". I think it was meant to be witty, but it came across as plain bloody rude.

[powerdesal]

The Forum Wars 2006.......??????

[Will]

[quote user="Christine Animal"]You can't post kittens on AI.[/quote]

Some people can - http://brittany.angloinfo.com/forum/topic.asp?topic_ID=19759&forum_ID=26&cat_ID=2&topic_Title=Pedigree+kittens+for+sale

[:^)]

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="powerdesal"]The Forum Wars 2006.......??????

[/quote]

I'm sure that LF types are far more heroic and quite the better

looking, so it should be no contest. Perhaps we should challenge them

to a sort of Surviving in France Olympiad, with events such as:

• the bureaucracy marathon (the quickest acquisition of an
  unrequired carte de sejour from an uncooperative prefecture armed only
  with an EDF bill)
• the renovation sprint (from devis to completion employing only legal labour)
• the integration 110m hurdles (cheery "bonjour" from the
  neighbours, though the first arkward and linguistically challenging
  apéros, via dinner to the finish line of being gossipped to rather than about)

There must be other events???

[Russethouse]

I'm happy to compete in 'fastest to eat a gourmet meal' [D] [:)][:)]

[Christine Animal]

Yes Will, I know you can post kittens, especially if they are for sale.  What I meant, referrring to Dick's higher post, is that you can't post a photo of a kitten, because you can't post a photo (can you?)...

I found it sad that my post on AI asking for signatures for the petition to save the Galgos in Spain was deleted with no explanation.  When I asked the reason, I was informed that it was "off topic".  The Normandy site kindly let me put it back on.

Bernard Tanguy of the Poitou-Charentes site confirmed that it was "off topic", but that there would soon be an Anglo Info for Spain, so I would be able to put it on there!  I expressed my opinion to him that I thought it a shame that admin was not more in favour of this kind of topic, aimed simply at saving animals, rather than the adds they allow for selling them from people who are not official breeders.

I am not having a go at AI, just mentioning what I said directly to them and I think I can manage without them.  My posts on there were usually to help others anyway.

 

[Will]

Thanks Christine, glad you got some sense out of at least one region. I do find some sites' policy of not allowing announcements like yours, or other impartial recommendations, rather strange, when they willingly take paid advertising and, it seems, allow the advertisers or their close associates to recommend themselves on the forums.

I don't think it  was AI that Dick was banned from, though.

[Catalpa]

attention Will-le-C:

Poor Annie near Domfront has been looking for replies to her restaurant question on AI-N. I thought you might want to post and also email her direct. If you can be bothered - although, it's not poor Annie's fault that she's suffered from random deletion syndrome.

Maybe I'll stroll across and recommend she posts the same question on LF and see how fast her thread (or at the very least my post) gets deleted.[6]

[Ty Korrigan]

How do the forums 'lock you' out thus preventing you from baiting numpties?

Is there a 'signature' or some type of identity your computer gives when you try to login?

[Dick Smith]

What is banned is your log-in name, which is usually linked to your email address. You can always (as we have seen here) log in as someone else using a different email address (a Hotmail or Yahoo account will do). This is the process known as 'sock puppeting' which allows you to have several identities at the same time if you wish, so that you can even have conversations with yourself (seen that here as well).

As far as I can see (though I may be wrong) it is not actually possible to ban a particular computer as the internet address, or IP identity, is now usually assigned dynamically when you log on to your ISP rather than being permanently assigned, as used to be the case, so the forum would not usually know precisely which computer was being used, but would know a geographical area.

[Nick Trollope]

[quote user="Ty Korrigan"]How do the forums 'lock you' out thus preventing you from baiting numpties?

Is there a 'signature' or some type of identity your computer gives when you try to login?

[/quote]

Email addresses, usually, although it is a fairly manual task so most forum mamagers wouldn't bother. AI-B is, of course an exception - as you well know!!

I, of course, have plenty of email addresses and still have at least 2 working ID's on AI.

We shall overcome!

[Catalpa]

Most forums would bar your user name and corresponding email address leaving you to get yourself another email address and signing up again. It is sometimes possible to bar an IP address - rarely though because any machine's IP address is normally assigned dynamically by server per session. Not always and it can depend on the contract you have with your service provider - for eg on the odd occasions I have checked, my IP address has remained constant from session to session.

If you want to check your IP address, location etc, there are lots of sites which will tell you who you are just by going to them (no, not your actual name!) www.internetfrog.com is one such. You can hide your IP address as you wander the www - one example of this type of software, if I remember correctly, is called Silencer. Hiding your IP address is apparently a good thing because of spyware etc though imo a good firewall / anti-virus software will sort that. I can imagine the Gary Glitters of this world would like to be anonymous on the web though. Allegedly.

[Will]

[quote user="catalpa"]

attention Will-le-C:

Poor Annie near Domfront has been looking for replies to her restaurant question on AI-N. I thought you might want to post and also email her direct. If you can be bothered - although, it's not poor Annie's fault that she's suffered from random deletion syndrome.

Maybe I'll stroll across and recommend she posts the same question on LF and see how fast her thread (or at the very least my post) gets deleted.[6]

[/quote]

Catalpa, I see you did as you suggested, and also there were some other recommendations. Just for reference I posted the following:
"I suggested Grandgousier in Domfront, by the post office, and Auberge de la Source at St Cyr du Bailleul. I also pointed out that the recommmended place at St Fraimbault is English owned, which suits many people but you may prefer something more authentically French. You will find details of that one (but not the others) in the directory section of this site [i.e. AngloInfo], with some more. I agree about le Clé de Champs - there are two on the N176 to St Hilaire at Domfront Gare, Relais St Michel, a bit stuffy but good food, and the Grill of the Hotel de Paris, a bit more basic, steaks cooked on a wood fire, excellent chips, and, as pointed out, plenty of English customers.

Good luck in your search, this thread will not stay here long as recommendations are not allowed (unless they are for an advertiser) and neither are references to other web sites."

[Causette]

WtC wrote:

Causette - we are very tolerant here. As with any forum there are one or two people known to be a little on the reactionary side, but we have a code of conduct that is enforced.

 

Glad to hear it Will ! (and all the LF regulars!)  there was a time back there when it was difficult to post anything without a queue of people waiting to pounce (and I'm not a reactionary, more of a big girl's blouse  , so I mooched off elsewhere!).    I'll certainly drop by from time to time.  I had such a lot of help from this forum when we were planning our move over here, and in 3 years (I know, not nearly as long as some of you), some of our experiences may be recent enough to be of help to others. 

[Monika]

Find AI quite interesting and agree with Catalpa, the For Sale section is useful, also the houses for sale.

Was this thread a clever way to advertise it???? 

[Will]

[quote user="Monika"]

Was this thread a clever way to advertise it???? 

[/quote]

Not really (I can't imagine Nick, who started the topic, is that bothered about advertising AngloInfo). [:D]

We don't have any problem with mentioning other forums and web sites here. We are big enough to look kindly on perceived 'competition', we know users here generally read and contribute to other sites, and we recognise the differences between the forums.

[zencherry]

I was PM'd by a friend who said "their talking about that website you like on TF" so I thought I'd check it out. And all I can say is how childish this all seems.

I'm gonna start with the first post - "Idiots on AI"

This thread must have had at least twice as many replies as remain, and those that remain have been heavily edited. It is amazing that the owners (or franchise holders, or whatever) allow this to happen. Don't the contributors to AI resent being made out to be a bunch of brown-nosers?

Perhaps nicktrollope didn't spend as much time as I did on AI Brittany over the weekend (I was following a different thread, but kept up to date with this one, cause it was there, hey?). I saw posts being made and being deleted by the admins. Were they posts that kncked AI? No. They were posts that knocked AI's "competitors", generally in a kinda trite way (and comments on those posts, which made no damn sense once the first post had hit digital dust). Had the posts been left, AI's contributors would have seemed far more like brown nosers than they do with the edited verson of the thread, and far more bitter about other sites (this one? I think not - it was clear that most of the comments were targetted at a different one, but anyway, WGAF?).

Now I'm going to skip to near the end of this adolescent tripe:

but we have a code of conduct that is enforced.

Rubbish. Here are a few examples from the code of conduct:

• Please do not advertise your products or services on the message boards. Any advertising without permission will be removed.

How many of the posts contain clear adverts for businesses, such as "2gites" (and I can't find a link to his/her website on any AI forum, whatever they think - checkitout).

• Please choose your words carefully when posting a message. It is diffucult to obtain the tone of written messages unlike when speaking to someone.

This clearly isn't happening, bwana - Ty Korrigan, whoever he/she is?

• There is to be no 'naming and shaming' on the site. If you have any complaints about particular individuals/companies then contact the relevant parties or authorities.

The phrase "duh-uh" is hard to resist.

• Are insulting, abusive, racist, sexist, or derogatory in any way to others, whether they are individuals or companies, users of the Forum or not. This includes material sent via personal e-mails through this forum.

Have I missed something, or is there some insulting going on here, children?

• Make libelous comments about individuals or companies, including Living France magazine and FRANCE magazine.

Ditto. Maybe you guys don't know but libel is a CRIMINAL offence in France, not just civil. I only found this out after discussing a matter with the AI admins where I was sure I was right and wasn't (and, yes, I checked it). And it's no excuse to be based in the UK as the case is based where the harm is "deemed" to have taken place - if you libel someone in France then the French courts own it. 100%. That scared the living wotsits out of me when I found out, I can tell you! (And I closed down my blog, too, after a very heavy letter from a French company that I didn't like expressed its, er, dissatisfaction with the way I, er, expressed my dislike)

• Contain explicit language or vulgarities (whether written in French, English or any other language)

Hmm. I think that one's been tampered with too. TK, (again), if nothing else.

In other words (not wishing to use explicit language or vulgarities, you know) you've just proved why I like AI over websites such as (well) this. It doesn't just talk the talk, but it also walks the walk. In other words, it really does implement its rules. It really doesn't allow busines to push thenselves or people to by obscene or whatever. And it jumps hard on off-topic posts that are allegedly banned here but seem to make up most of the content. Its rules are RULES.

I can't be bothered with no-nothing blowhards believing that they can use shared spaces to make their irreleveant statements about nothing at all. That's not freedom of speech but just vandalism. If you feel the uncontrollable urge to say what you gotta say then do what I did and get yourself a blog rather than bothering other people that have more important things to do than listen to your whines (but don't, I wanna tell ya, do what I did and use that blog to inadvertenly libel people - the www is not a lawless frontier, especially in France).

AI is the goods, because it gets rid of the rubbish like "do they quack" jokes (and I can't find another "do they quack" joke either, Will the "Conqueror", perhaps you misread somothing or failed to notice that, like yours, someone else's irrelevant drivel had been culled forthe benefit of the rest of us). I post to topics that really interest me, whatever forum I use. I then tick the "tell me when someone replies" box, because I want to know if someone's posted something useful. If I'm asking about shoes I don't wanna find my topic has turned into a discussion of the best way to feed sheep. AI is the only site that treats me with enough respect to protect me from that drivel.

I've joined this forum to make this point.  But I'll be monitoring this thread now to see if there's any reason to contribute further. At the moment, I feel like I expend most of my efforts in the right place, which isn't (for a long-term resident of France rather than a UK-based magasine reader), here.

[Deimos]

[quote

user="zencherry"]

I was PM'd by a friend who

said "their talking about that website you like on TF" so I thought

I'd check it out. And all I can say is how childish this all seems.

...

[/quote]

 

You raise a few interesting points relating to how different

people use forums.  I am surprised that

you were told about people discussing something on TF (TotalFrance) yet came

here.  TotalFrance is a different forum

for people interested in France.

I do not know AI so my comments are general ones and not specific

to AI.  I do know of another forum which

suffers from over “editing” by the operators (on occasions they will go in and

change the meaning of what people have posted) – so whatever AI may (or may

not) suffer from, they are not alone.

One of the great problems where you have somebody “pruning”

things that they consider “irrelevant”, not appropriate, etc. is that you end

up with a forum that purely reflects the attitudes of the operator.  People quickly learn what posts will stay

and which will go and don’t bother to waste their time posting something that

whilst potentially interesting or useful, stands a high chance of being deleted

– why waste your time. Clearly there are extreme posts that do break laws

(racist comments, insulting behaviour, etc.) – though with an adult audience,

these are few and rare.  However, an

inexperienced or over cautions admin can end-up over pruning to the detriment

of the entire forum

Different people use forums for different things.  Some people focus on particular aspects whilst

others participate in a number of different areas.  Some people use forums as a sort of “slow response chat room” –

so what – the same people often also post loads of useful responses to

questions asked by others.

For a forum to be useful it requires people to share

information.  For people to bother to

participate it has to be fun, enjoyable. 

For many, continually answering the “how do I …” questions will become

dull and they will stop bothering.  As

with any sort of discussion area (e.g. forums) participants need to be

tolerant.  In the example you give where

you participate in a thread and check the “notify me of new posts” button –

that is your choice.  However, it is not

your thread and you have no right to dictate the content of what others

post.  The fact that you receive an

e-mail is your choice – and if you don’t like the post – that’s part of using a

forum.  It will happen and over

censorship is not the answer.

It is actually very easy for over administration to “drive”

participants away and it is often those who post useful info who are driven

away.  People who need the “answers to

questions” tend to stay because “they need the answers”.  It is those who provide the answers who can “find

better things to do with their time”. And if posts they make are regularly

deleted/edited by over zealous admin then they will.  I believe that this is part of the reasons why some forums grow

and others fail to meet their potential.

 

Ian