French Property News, take a black mark !

[Miki]

Every so often, I read an answer from this monthly glossy and every so

often in the Q&A page, there are glaring errors. Not my problem, so

on I read of other things in La Belle France.

BUT this answer defied even most other errors that had gone on before.

The Question was, could this person who had registered his car already

in France (Bravo sir) now tow his caravan with English plates when he

brought the van in to France ?

Answer : According to the Caravan club.

A car must have the same plates as the car towing. And according to the

DVLA, who confirmed the Caravan Club answer, was to therefore go out

and buy a matching French plate, stick it on the caravan et voila..... a

nice legal set up..................Je pense pas!!

Caravan Club and

DVLA and perhaps Archant themselves, would you be willing to cough up should this man have an accident

with his van ? And then of course with or without the accident, being

asked by the Gendarmes  for the caravans certificat de conformité, carte grise etc.

Sunday Driver, what do you make of their reply .........................?

[Christine Animal]

I don't know if it's legal, but you do see that don't you on trailers and things, the number of the towing car tied over another number.

 

[Deimos]

Actually you have raised a point that I am totally unaware about and had made similar assumptions (I am planning on buying a boat this winter which will need towing) - so I'm off to search the forum or start a new thread.

Many thanks

Ian

[opas]

I do not think that there is actualy a cut and dried answer to this question.

Assuming that because this man has a french plated car he is on french insurance, then the green ticket on his windscreen would display the wieght he was allowed to tow, nomaly this is 750kg, although this can be upgraded if one has a heavy van. So if this man has a lightweight van and is bringing the van into france, surely there is a time scale to re register as there is with a car.

It would actualy be an offence not to display a licence plate, but to display a false one...ie the car reg no of a french car,as french registered caravans in france have their own plate, would I should think also be an offence.

 

What would the offence be if this guy was towing a low weight caravan(ie within the weights of his insurance stipulation) and just traveling from the port to his address, with Brit plates?  Assuming that once he arrives he is going to register it.

Interesting.

 

 

[Miki]

Mrs O,

If it were me, I might take a chance on asking at the dockside whether

I can go through as I am just going to the DRIRE for a first confirmed

visit and in fact make an appointment, that would give me some kind of

rights technically to be towing the van with French car and caravan on

UK plates.

What is the perhaps the main point here, is that the caravan in

question may not even be allowed to have a carte grise and for all

intent and purpose the police have to take the van as unsafe. Those of

us that have either done it or played a big part of getting a British caravan

through DRIRE, know that the main things concerning the pass is

the chassis and braking system (yes gas, electrics etc are in the shake

up) and other items but road worthiness is what the concerns are here,

gendarme wise !)

[quote] It would actually be an offence not to display a licence plate, but to

display a false one...i.e the car reg no of a french car,as french

registered caravans in France have their own plate, would I should

think also be an offence.[/quote]

That certainly would be and was the main point I was on about really.

As for dispensation by the Gendarmes to travel on in this manner, well

as ever, it may well depend on the indivdual on the day. I knew a chap

who towed like that (UK van and French Reg. car) for ages, picked up

two fines before finally ditching the van!

Trailers are a slightly different matter but, one big enough to put a

caravan on or a fair sized boat will need to have a carte grise and be

insured and certainly have a car weighty enough to pull the trailer and

van, or boat, if large.

[Christine Animal]

It does seem to depend whether the caravan weighs less or more than 750 kilos :

Immatriculations des Caravanes

[Miki]

Sorry but you are looking at this from completely the wrong angle.

For a start, read the last couple of paragraphs of that link. Most of that link is to do with French caravans, NOT UK built vans

In the first instance they mention that they want to know about

braking, coupling (and chassis) as I said before and that is without

them needing to check gas and elecrical etc.. A French car pulling a UK

caravan without cert de conformite etc and carte grise is not legal,

end of...................that's the facts. If I were him, the first

risk is at the port itself, if the douanes or gendrames do not notice

the set up, then that is one part out of the way, the next thing is on

the road, if he gets caught with French plates on an "uncertified" van,

he will be for the high jump. If it's possible, the best way simply has

to be an English friend with a UK car and towbar who will tow it to the

place needed to travel to but it is a fighting chance he will get home

OK in either situation, the fear is being stopped..................

I did say, some of us have had to deal with getting caravan(s) on to

French plates and that appears not to be a good enough qualification to

have an answer so..............BUT I can tell you this, you will not

get a British built caravan on to French plates and carte grise etc

without an inspection or three. You can read all you want and try and

fit it in to your thoughts but I can assure you, many have given up and

a minority have gone all the way and managed to do it. It is not that

difficult and having been through it all and understand what the

inspection(s) entails, wonder why people worry but for a first timer

without any help, I can see clearly why they have given up.

[Sunday Driver]

Wow!  Quite a few differing views here, though it's not clear whether the French News'  Caravan Club response took into account the specification of the original questioner's caravan.

As always, the key is to study the French code de la route for the definitive answer to towing a caravan behind a French registered car .

A caravan is classified as a trailer and the rules for trailers are quite straightforward:

Trailers with a PTAC (total authorised all-up weight of trailer and payload) less than 500kg do not require separate registration and are merely required to display a rear number plate showing the towing vehicle's registration number. No type approval is required, but they must comply with French traffic rules concerning weights, lights, tyres, etc.

Trailers with a PTAC over 500kg require their own carte grise and therefore need type approval.  They also need to display their own rear registration number plate. Most, if not all, UK caravans will fall into this category.

Trailers with a PTAC over 750kg additionally need to be braked. Trailers under 750kg do not require brakes unless their PTAC exceeds the unladen weight of the towing vehicle.

So, to summarise the specific rules which apply when bringing a UK caravan over to France with your French registered car:

If the caravan has a PTAC less than 500kg, then it is sufficient to display the towing vehicle's French registration number on the rear.  You have nothing more to do.

If the caravan has a PTAC greater than 500kg, then it needs it's own registration.  That means that before you bring it over to France, you must apply to your prefecture for a temporary "transit" carte grise and display a temporary WW registration number on the rear of the caravan before towing it here. The transit carte grise is valid for 15 days to give you time to register your caravan. 

If your caravan does not have EU type approval, then  it will require a separate gas system test followed by a DRIRE type approval inspection  To allow for any potential delay in getting these done, you can extend the time limit on your transit carte grise by applying for a second carte grise which gives you an additional 15 days.  You may only have one extension.

Once the caravan is registered here, you fit it's own new registration number to the rear.  Simple...[:)]

 

 

[Miki]

I think you know about caravan weights SD, perhaps you can tell me just

how many are weighted 500 kgs or less (quite right, as good as nil !) and 99.9% will be

above 500kgs, therefore an inspection is obligatory. The rest of the

regs as far as UK vans are concerned is the usual blah blah blah,. I

only knew one person apply for the transit carte grise and I think he

may well still be waiting !!

Thanks for the regs but I think we both know that the advice given, was diabolical in this instance.

[Sunday Driver]

Miki

I find your response quite bewildering, to be honest.

You start off by castigating French News, the Caravan Club and the DVLA for purported giving legally incorrect advice to a caravanner on the correct use and display of registration plates when towing with his French car.

You point out how their actions may have exposed the original questioner to the risks in case of an accident and potential action by the Gendarmerie.

You ask me for my views on the matter.

When I post up the regulations which support your original criticism, you now decide to dismiss them as "blah, blah, blah". You can't be indignant about breaching the rules one moment, then rubbish those rules the next. 

If you say that the advice given was diabolic, then your own response must be the same.

 

 

 

[Miki]

For goodness sake man, read it again. It was not attack on you nor meant to be.

[quote] The rest of the

regs as far as UK vans are concerned is the usual blah blah blah,[/quote]

The blah blah was because of all the weights and regulations, rules

and

rules numbers that were on offer I was not going to name each and every

one, so simply called it all  blah blah blah as much of the link

given, was not much to do with bringing a UK caravan to France to

use.....

And the following part was saying, that both you and I know, that as

far as caravans coming here and under 500kgs is just not a player and

so it can be read as one simply has to get the van through DRIRE

[quote] I think you know about caravan weights SD, perhaps you can tell me just

how many are weighted 500 kgs or less (quite right, as good as nil !) and 99.9% will be

above 500kgs, therefore an inspection is obligatory. . I

only knew one person apply for the transit carte grise and I think he

may well still be waiting !![/quote]

I appreciated your input but quite stupidly, as happens in too many

other cases. a simple PM would have cleared it all up before you took

this uneccessary attitude, in which my post was, in no way intended to

have a pop at you.

And followed up again, thanking you for showing the regs which proved

that the chap would have to get it sorted out at the DRIRE, when a post 

was made  that under 750 kgs should mean he was OK and that the advice given in FPN was diabolical.

[quote]Thanks for the regs but I think we both know that the advice given, was diabolical in this instance.[/quote]

Now if any of  this post is misunderstood, in the words of the learned  Mr Smithy.............gorrocks !

[BJSLIV]

you say that the advice given was diabolic

Which is of course refering to the original advice in FPN..........

Edit Miki beat me to it, due to server errors.

[Miki]

Thanks BJ.

My server erreur must have been over quicker than yours because I couldn't get on to reply either, for a while !!

[Sunday Driver]

Sorry if I've misread what you intended to say, Miki, but your response started off with a point about caravan weights making an inspection obligatory, which was then followed by what appeared to me to be a throwaway comment about the regulations being the usual blah, blah, blah and that you only knew of one person who had applied for a transit carte grise and would still be waiting....

This clearly seemed to contradict your original views, so as you can imagine, I was confused.

You now say that the reason for the blah...blah...comment was because much of the link given was not much to do with bringing a UK caravan to France to use.

However, I didn't post a link and you didn't mention any such link in your first response to me. Moreover, you particularly mentioned "the transit carte grise" - and as I was the only one that had spoken about this process, I assumed that you were referring to my post, so I don't really feel my attitude was unreasonable.

However, having made your thinking a bit more clear to me, I am happy to apologise to you for any misunderstanding.

 

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="BJSLIV"]

you say that the advice given was diabolic

Which is of course refering to the original advice in FPN..........

Edit Miki beat me to it, due to server errors.

[/quote]

That was my understanding too.  I didn't think he was referring me....[;-)]

 

[Miki]

 

[quote]I assumed that you were referring to my post, so I don't really feel my attitude was unreasonable.[/quote]

Well there you go then, assuming is a funny old game.............[:)]

[quote] However, having made your thinking a bit more clear to me, I

am happy to apologise to you for any misunderstanding [/quote]

Well I have to say that now makes two of us pretty confused but

........................I happily accept your apologies................

I think[;-)]

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="Miki"] I happily accept your apologies................ I think[;-)]
[/quote]

Don't push your luck......[;-)]

 

[Russethouse]

Perhaps you should contact French Property News with your comments, perhaps they could clarify the situation in a later issue ?

[email protected]

[Miki]

The funny thing is, I found another glaring error that will certainly

interest a few newcomers as well in the mag and I have only

read it for a few minutes so far.

Tell them............... yer 'aving larf, the buggers

wanted me banned.........................they can have that one for

nothing but from now, it's negotiation time [:)]

[Absafc]

[quote user="Miki"]The funny thing is, I found another glaring error that will certainly

interest a few newcomers as well in the mag and I have only

read it for a few minutes so far.

Tell them............... yer 'aving larf, the buggers

wanted me banned.........................they can have that one for

nothing but from now, it's negotiation time [:)]

[/quote]

Wanted you banned! I don't believe it.

[Cassis]

Do you actually subscribe to this rag, Miki, perhaps waiting for the right point at which to sell up and rake in your enormous profits?

Or have the daft beggars simply forgotten to cancel your subscription once it ran out, like us? [:D]

[Miki]

[quote user="Absafc"][quote user="Miki"]The funny thing is, I found another glaring error that will certainly

interest a few newcomers as well in the mag and I have only

read it for a few minutes so far.

Tell them............... yer 'aving larf, the buggers

wanted me banned.........................they can have that one for

nothing but from now, it's negotiation time [:)]

[/quote]

Wanted you banned! I don't believe it.

[/quote]

I know, I know, who would Adam and Eve it eh ?

The freedom campaign went well merci, did I see you at the do when I was released, at McDos in Saint Malo ?

[Miki]

[quote user="Cassis"]Do you actually subscribe to this rag, Miki,

perhaps waiting for the right point at which to sell up and rake in

your enormous profits?

Or have the daft beggars simply forgotten to cancel your subscription once it ran out, like us? [:D]

[/quote]

Schhhhhhweppes, nod's as good as a wink and all that.

Enormous profits!! We are still eating the sandwiches we bought back

from our holiday in Spain ! Tortilla and cheese spread, Yummy

!........does that sound like rich peeps ?????

[Absafc]

[quote user="Miki"][quote user="Absafc"][quote user="Miki"]The funny thing is, I found another glaring error that will certainly

interest a few newcomers as well in the mag and I have only

read it for a few minutes so far.

Tell them............... yer 'aving larf, the buggers

wanted me banned.........................they can have that one for

nothing but from now, it's negotiation time [:)]

[/quote]

Wanted you banned! I don't believe it.

[/quote]

I know, I know, who would Adam and Eve it eh ?

The freedom campaign went well merci, did I see you at the do when I was released, at McDos in Saint Malo ?

[/quote]

You may have noticed a shadow, a mere suggestion of a presence and then, when it was safe, nothing, no trace. Rest assured, however, when needed I shall return. Hi ho Miki, away!

[Cassis]

Hi-ho Sliver!  Zorro's away!  Braaaghh.  Where's me coffee?