EDF Charges in France Vs UK costs

[StephenM]

Hi

 

We are just about to buy our fist house in France.  The heating is electric.  I have read and been told by numerous people that electricity is expensive in France.  I have looked at the French website of EDF and the costs appear to be HP €0.1074 kwh and HC € 0.0654 kwh, with a standing charge of about €270 for a 60 amp supply. I checked the cost of 14 UK suppliers and the average cost was 9.03 pence per kwh or €0.13.  This makes French electricity cheaper than the UK.

 

Have I missed something, or have I or the tariffs wrong?

[cooperlola]

My own belief is that charges in the UK have gone up and that the old mythology that it was more expensive here is now wrong. Our electricity bill is a little more than it was in the UK but now includes central heating and water which was not the case in England.

[Val_2]

Still better off here with no gas to pay for,plenty of cheap wood for stove and electric heating when its really cold. People forget they have gas central heating in the UK to pay for compared to other fuels in France and I remember that being very very expensive in the two winter quarters when I lived there.

[saddie]

[quote user="StephenM"]

Hi

 

We are just about to buy our fist house in France.  The heating is electric.  I have read and been told by numerous people that electricity is expensive in France.  I have looked at the French website of EDF and the costs appear to be HP €0.1074 kwh and HC € 0.0654 kwh, with a standing charge of about €270 for a 60 amp supply. I checked the cost of 14 UK suppliers and the average cost was 9.03 pence per kwh or €0.13.  This makes French electricity cheaper than the UK.

 

Have I missed something, or have I or the tariffs wrong?

[/quote]

Have you included the standing charge in your English calculations?

We are option tempo with gas for cooking and a woodburner which is backed up by electric convectors when needed.

Our costs for 366 days including standing charge for an 18kva supply using a tad under 10000 kw hours averaged 0.14 cents a kw hour.

Where did you get the cost of a 60amp supply and is that the same as kva?

[powerdesal]

 I have just checked my latest EDF bill, 463 units (estimated reading) with a TTC total of E79.92 which gives a net cost of 17.3 c/kwh.

Although the price of E0.0773 / kwh plus E 0.0045 /kwh (autres prestations) is the before tax rate you cannot avoid the abonnement (E4.40 / month) and the taxes locales (E5.97) plus the TVA.

The above figure of E0.173 shows your UK price is cheaper at E0.13, but did you include your standing charge?

edit. my tarif is domestique option base on a 6 kw supply code 014.

2nd Edit:-    The unit price on my tarif is E0.0778 / kwh effective 15/08/2006

[Will]

It certainly used to be the case that electricity bills in France were substantially higher than in Britain.

However, Britain relies mostly on imported fossil fuels to generate its power. Costs of coal, oil, and gas fuels have risen sharply in recent years. France, on the other hand, generates almost 80% of its power from nuclear energy. After the capital outlay of building the power station, and the day-to-day running costs, nuclear electricity costs very little, and is not subject to the same sort of fluctuation.

The result is that the two countries are now pretty much on a par, with France perhaps slightly cheaper.

[Benjamin]

Just adding to Will's post.

From the EDF web site the sources of electricity generation are;

Nuclear  86.9%

Hydro Power  7.8%

Fossil Fuels  5.3%

[Teamedup]

Yes I reckon that they are kif-kif now.

[Patmobile]

The real difference is probably the scandalous EDF standing charges in France.  Since deregulation in UK, many householders pay no standing charge for electricity.

Let's hope the same thing eventually happens here when,  at last, we can choose our supplier in a free market.

Patrick

[LesLauriers]

My bill in France 1139€ using the same consumption figures on the Uswitch site they give the lowest figure available as £1321.61 or 1942€ at 1.47 to the £.

A saving of over 800€.

[nimportequoi]

[quote user="Leslauriers"]My bill in France 1139€ using the same consumption figures on the Uswitch site they give the lowest figure available as £1321.61 or 1942€ at 1.47 to the £.

A saving of over 800€.

[/quote]

I hope that is an annual and not bi-monthly bill!

[Teamedup]

Our current bills for gas and electricity in France are around 130€ a month x10. How much more we will have to pay this time when the bill comes in, I have no idea as the prices have gone up since last year............... AND these utility companies have already asked me to reduce my payments this year, which I refused.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Patmobile"]The real difference is probably the scandalous

EDF standing charges in France.  Since deregulation in UK, many

householders pay no standing charge for electricity.

Let's hope the same thing eventually happens here when,  at last, we can choose our supplier in a free market.

Patrick

[/quote]

....all that has happened in the "free market" , it seems,  is

that the standing charge has been redistributed into the unit price for

power. This is not necessarily fairer, as high volume users effectively

susidise connections for small users but on average amounts to the same

thing in l s & d. What is deeply scandalous is that de-regulation

has left the UK woefully exposed to supply disruptions such as the

Russians cutting of the gas for completely non-political reasons.

Personally I have no beef with an EDF monopoly, but in most other ways

am a fully convinced disciple of Adam Smith.

Our home power bill is about half what we used to pay in London five

years ago, despite our level of use being about the same. Electricity

(and wine) is one of the few things that seem to be genuinely cheaper

here than there.

[cooperlola]

Also reminds me of the way Enron held the whole of California to ransom for similarly nepharious reasons!  Scarey thought, isn't it?

[Pun]

It also depends on your location in france, we live in the heart of france (limousin) and we do not use much lighting /no heating/ no dryers/ etc in the summer and we have a long summer here and so if your not using it your not paying for it,

its like the food question, if you shop and not just pick the first thing that comes into sight, ie it was pionted out to us that fish (cod) was very costly here in france and so we decided this week to see the price difference, on the open saturday market, 34 euro per kg in the freezer at two seperate sup/markets

one was 24 euro and the second was 12 euro per/kg. now thats one hell of a saving and by the way the locals bought the freezer fish it must be good.

the same thing with veg, have a look when your next at the open markets how the prices change from display to display and you'll be amazed at how much you can save if you shop and not just arrive with wallet open and fingers pointing.

The same goes for when you shop, friday/sat/ things will not be on offer as much as mondays

monday is a good day for certain bargains ie fresh goods that have a short shelve life but can be frozen of used for that evening meal.

[cooperlola]

Point taken, Pun but we spent only a maximum of 50% of the time at home when we lived in the UK (we worked) and we're here all the time now.  Plus although our warm season is a little longer here, the weather is very similar in winter.  Still we're pleased with the costs of electricity, given that we were led to believe it was considerably more expensive.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="cooperlola"]Also reminds me of the way Enron held the

whole of California to ransom for similarly nepharious reasons! 

Scarey thought, isn't it?[/quote]

Ah yes, dear old Enron. Putting their other indescrtions to one side,

all they did in this case was to triumph in the free market, out

compete everyone else and buy all the assets. So what exactly did they

do wrong? The logical conclusion of free & fair competition is

monopoly, so why did everyone get so exercised when the inevitable

happened? Give me EDF any day - it least they aren't trying to make

markets in wood pulp derivatives and weather futures when they should

be concentrating on generating and distributing electricity.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Jon"][quote user="cooperlola"]Also reminds me of the way Enron held the whole of California to ransom for similarly nepharious reasons!  Scarey thought, isn't it?[/quote]

Ah yes, dear old Enron. Putting their other indescrtions to one side, all they did in this case was to triumph in the free market, out compete everyone else and buy all the assets. So what exactly did they do wrong? The logical conclusion of free & fair competition is monopoly, so why did everyone get so exercised when the inevitable happened? Give me EDF any day - it least they aren't trying to make markets in wood pulp derivatives and weather futures when they should be concentrating on generating and distributing electricity.
[/quote]I've mentioned this on another thread but the movie "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room" is a true eye-opener.  They now have audio tapes of Enron traders  phoning up California power stations (which did not belong to Enron, btw) and getting them to shut down the power for a couple of hours so they could sell at even more inflated prices, a commodity they did not even own in the first place.  Well worth a watch - rivetting and thought provoking stuff.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="cooperlola"][quote user="Jon"][quote

user="cooperlola"]Also reminds me of the way Enron held the whole of

California to ransom for similarly nepharious reasons!  Scarey

thought, isn't it?[/quote]

Ah yes, dear old Enron. Putting their

other indescrtions to one side, all they did in this case was to

triumph in the free market, out compete everyone else and buy all the

assets. So what exactly did they do wrong? The logical conclusion of

free & fair competition is monopoly, so why did everyone get so

exercised when the inevitable happened? Give me EDF any day - it least

they aren't trying to make markets in wood pulp derivatives and weather

futures when they should be concentrating on generating and

distributing electricity.

[/quote]I've mentioned this on another

thread but the movie "Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room" is a true

eye-opener.  They now have audio tapes of Enron traders 

phoning up California power stations (which did not belong to Enron,

btw) and getting them to shut down the power for a couple of hours so

they could sell at even more inflated prices, a commodity they did not

even own in the first place.  Well worth a watch - rivetting and

thought provoking stuff.[/quote]

Nothing would surprise me about that era, but I have a feeling those

audio tapes may not be quite kosher. Even the dimest MBA masquerading

as a trader would not make a call like that on a line he/she had even

the slightest suspicion that it might be being taped by Complience.

That is what pay phones are for.

[cooperlola]

The tapes were made by the traders themselves( a  common practice and much used to keep records of transactions) and were turned over as evidence in a court case.  Anyway, don't want to drag this off-topic too much.  But if this subject interests you - do get hold of the DVD; very well worth an hour and a half of anybody's time.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="cooperlola"]The tapes were made by the traders themselves(

a  common practice and much used to keep records of transactions)

and were turned over as evidence in a court case.  Anyway, don't

want to drag this off-topic too much.  But if this subject

interests you - do get hold of the DVD; very well worth an hour and a

half of anybody's time.[/quote]

Indeed, quite a normal practice (though we always found that trying to

find the relevant tape when we actually needed them something of a

trial...) but not when doing something that even a moron must have

realised was unlawful. Unless they were doing it for ego boosting

purposes, which is entirely possible. But you are right - off topic. I

shall seek out the DVD. Good thing EDF weren't sold off a few years ago

to the highest bidder, though.

[powerdesal]

Enron traders  phoning up California power stations (which did not belong to Enron, btw) and getting them to shut down the power for a couple of hours

Come on people, wake up. There is not a power plant in the World that will shut down on the request of a 'gash' somebody. Instructions come from Grid Control or the Station Manager (who would have some really serious explaining to do if it was not a genuine emergency outage).

Another urban myth I'm afraid. Oh and the Grid Control lines are dedicated secure links, not public access phone lines, and ALL instructions are automatically taped.

Regards

Powerdesal  ie " Power and Desalination", ex Operations Superintendent of 1000Mw power plant.

[cooperlola]

I can't comment on that powerdesal and without transcribing the entire film and the US court proceedings, I think maybe you should watch it and see what you think (and watch the "extras" on the DVD as they explain a lot about the sources of the material used).  As I say, these tapes have been authenticated and many of the parties and individual involved (including power station mangers) are being prosecuted and some have been imprisoned and fined as a result of what happened.  These are not my thoughts or "mythologies" but those of a film and a book, the findings of both of which have not been called into question.  But as I say, it's a very revealing documentary and worth a watch, not only for the section about California.  I've hijacked this thread enough now[:D] - at the time it was meant merely to highlight the possible dangers of deregulating the lifeblood of a country.

[powerdesal]

Coop,

I will certainly try to locate a copy of the film as I am very interested. I can imagine any number of scenarios to get to the result you talk about but have never experienced such things in my career in the industry. I am not saying that you or the film are wrong, I dont have the information to do that. Its just never happened in my power plant. (its not mine anymore, I've moved on to project stuff on the specialist desalination side of the house).

[RumziGal]

[quote user="Pun"]

the locals bought the freezer fish it must be good.

[/quote]

Locals also buy Harry's American sandwich bread.   And McDonalds.   

IMHO, the important difference is not the cost of electricity (which should be a LOT cheaper in France if nuclear is SO brilliant, non-imported etc, now there's a major con for you).  The important thing is French incomes, which are generally low, so electricity is relatively very expensive.   You can see the difference straightaway - UK houses are generally much warmer than French ones, and Brits aren't nearly as tight about every centime as French people are, because (generalisation coming up) they don't have to be.