TreizeVents Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 [quote user="Marym2"]I do not care who said what. Again the two lines were mine the rest was a round robin email, However look at this link http://www.geocities.com/londondestruction/claremont.html and you may see where I am coming from.[/quote]What a fantastic local protest that was! Famous all over the UK, and an important incident in the growth of the anti-roads movement of the nineties, and the British altermondilasite movement. I can't quite see what this has to do with building a mosque. I can't see the connnection between a road and a mosque. And I cannot imagine that that many of the protesters in Wanstonia would oppose a mosque. Can you make the connections more clearly? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreizeVents Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 [quote user="Dotty "]Going back to mosques, I don't really care what they build in Docklands. But what does annoy me is if I had enough money could I build a christian church in an islamic country?[/quote]Brilliant logical point, but exactly who would go to the new church you want to build? Has there been a massive immigration of Christians to some Muslim country that I missed. In most of them, incidentally, contrary to your underlying assumption, there have beeen and in many cases still are, Jewish and Christian groups. Even Buddhist. Cor blimey, if had enough money, I can think of so many more fascinating things to do with it than build a church were no one can use it to make some logical point for someone. Even exciting Christian things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Why are you being sarcastic? I'm entitled to my opinion and I'm just sharing it. Also please don't tell me I have an underlying assumption about anything, you don't know me, you don't know how I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dago Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 [quote user="Tony F Dordogne"]Who gives a stuff about the St Malo 1?[/quote]Off topic and it could be you that is banned next....best regards[IMG]http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g130/dago49/StMalo.gif[/IMG] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Who gives a stuff about the St Malo 1?I do, as it happens. And so do several other forum users.Since when did logic play a part in matters of religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 [quote user="Dotty "]Going back to mosques, I don't really care what they build in Docklands. But what does annoy me is if I had enough money could I build a christian church in an islamic country?[/quote]In most yes. Even in some fundimentalist countries such as Iran (http://www.farsinet.com/icc/iran.html) If you do a search on google there are quite a lot of active christian churches in countries where you might think there would be none. Some countries, like Iran won't allow you to publicise your christian church. I guess till you ask you will no know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 [quote user="TreizeVents"][quote user="Dotty "]Going back to mosques, I don't really care what they build in Docklands. But what does annoy me is if I had enough money could I build a christian church in an islamic country?[/quote]Brilliant logical point, but exactly who would go to the new church you want to build? Has there been a massive immigration of Christians to some Muslim country that I missed. In most of them, incidentally, contrary to your underlying assumption, there have beeen and in many cases still are, Jewish and Christian groups. Even Buddhist. Cor blimey, if had enough money, I can think of so many more fascinating things to do with it than build a church were no one can use it to make some logical point for someone. Even exciting Christian things.[/quote]TV,I am not getting involved in the dockland mosque thing but you really ought to think before you make the sort of statement above.In Saudi Arabia there are tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of Christians. They are mostly the Indian and Philipino workers who do the (relatively) low level work.The number of 'Western' christians is quite limited, probably not more than a few thousand.It is absolutely against the Saudi law to have any Christian gathering, for whatever reason, anywhere. The punishment for such is severe.There are Christian churches in the more enlightened Muslim states, in fact the Catholic church in Dubai was paid for by the Dubai Ruler. This is definitely not normal in most (not all) Muslim countries.Pakistan has a sizeable Christian population but they suffer intense persecution and are treated as very much second class citizens.The idea of any Christian group being allowed to openly demonstrate for anything in a Muslim country is laughable.The above only illustrates how tolerant and enlightened we in the West are in terms of other religions, it does however also illustrate the superficiality of your comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreizeVents Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 [quote user="powerdesal"]TV,I am not getting involved in the dockland mosque thing but you really ought to think before you make the sort of statement above.In Saudi Arabia there are tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of Christians. They are mostly the Indian and Philipino workers who do the (relatively) low level work.The number of 'Western' christians is quite limited, probably not more than a few thousand.It is absolutely against the Saudi law to have any Christian gathering, for whatever reason, anywhere. The punishment for such is severe.There are Christian churches in the more enlightened Muslim states, in fact the Catholic church in Dubai was paid for by the Dubai Ruler. This is definitely not normal in most (not all) Muslim countries.Pakistan has a sizeable Christian population but they suffer intense persecution and are treated as very much second class citizens.The idea of any Christian group being allowed to openly demonstrate for anything in a Muslim country is laughable.The above only illustrates how tolerant and enlightened we in the West are in terms of other religions, it does however also illustrate the superficiality of your comment.[/quote]I am not sure what we disagree about. In some countries, Christians are second class citizens, in others Muslims. Sometimes its related to religion and sometimes skin colour or nationality or just plain exploitation of labour. Add in Jews and Buddhists and Scientlogists and go back a few hundred years and we have the same story repeating itself in various ways. I was a Quaker, and they didn't get on very well in England some years back. I certainly would agree TOTALLY that one of the most oppressive and intolerant regimes on earth is in Saudi Arabia, way worse than Iran or Iraq ever have been, as far as I know. And you certainly get my agreement about Pakistan, what a place! Although I am not sure that it is not, like Saudi Arabia, a combination of traditional patriarchal rule (not to do with Islam) and Islam, mixing into a horrible combination. Those are superb countries to take as examples of awful political regimes with little if any tolerance of difference. We agree completely. There are, however, other countires that are full of Muslims, with far more tolerance. And if I had a choice, I would certainly rather live in Western Europe for its tolerance of my own various practices. Although if I were a serious Muslim, I might have some doubts. This is why my original post used the word "some". Some means that I was criticising the Dotty's more sweeping assumptions. I just don't like sweeping generalisations about Muslims, Arabs, Christians, English or anyone. Unless I make them.[;-)] I don't think we have any disagreement at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreizeVents Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 [quote user="Dotty "]Why are you being sarcastic? I'm entitled to my opinion and I'm just sharing it. Also please don't tell me I have an underlying assumption about anything, you don't know me, you don't know how I think.[/quote]I was responding to you being annoyed about alledgedly not being able to build a Christian Church in any Muslim country, which I thought was an inappropriate comment, revealing some simplistic assumptions about religious tolerance in Islamic countries. As far as assumptions, I spent a lifetime figuring out what people's assumptions are by listening or reading what they say or write. You and nearly everyone on earth, except maybe some kind of enlightened beings, have loads of underlying assumptions. And you reveal them all the time. Even I do. [:)]Do you honestly think that you don't reveal them when you post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 So there are intolerant nations throughout the world - surprise, surprise. Since when is this an argument for Britain being the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 It isn't and we shouldn't be. Someone has to set an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 No thank you. I don't want The Tehran 15 and the St Malo 1, even if they are freeDanny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 [quote user="Marym2"]proud to be English! Have nothing to say about British thank you.[/quote]I don't really understand what there is to be proud of ?? Its just an accident of birth. I was born in Edinburgh, so am Scottish and British but proud of neither. Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumziGal Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 What a sorry thread altogether.I think I'll join the St Malo 1 in voluntary exile.Bye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 [quote user="TreizeVents"] I just don't like sweeping generalisations about Muslims, Arabs, Christians, English or anyone. Unless I make them.[/quote]You mean like "Religion is the Root of All Evil" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 [quote user="TreizeVents"][quote user="Dotty "]Why are you being sarcastic? I'm entitled to my opinion and I'm just sharing it. Also please don't tell me I have an underlying assumption about anything, you don't know me, you don't know how I think.[/quote]I was responding to you being annoyed about alledgedly not being able to build a Christian Church in any Muslim country, which I thought was an inappropriate comment, revealing some simplistic assumptions about religious tolerance in Islamic countries. As far as assumptions, I spent a lifetime figuring out what people's assumptions are by listening or reading what they say or write. You and nearly everyone on earth, except maybe some kind of enlightened beings, have loads of underlying assumptions. And you reveal them all the time. Even I do. [:)]Do you honestly think that you don't reveal them when you post?[/quote]If you read my first post you will see I asked a question, I didn't assume anything. Again please refrain from telling me I make assumptions, whether they are underlying or not. I make a judgement about what I read and if I want something clarifying, I will then ask. I learnt many years ago not to assume anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 [quote user="Jane and Danny"]No thank you. I don't want The Tehran 15 and the St Malo 1, even if they are freeDanny[/quote]I am sure the St Malo 1 is not concerned that you dont want him, however its an issue of free speech in his case. Thats the same free speech that the Tehran 15 defend. That is your free speech plus every other freedom you probably cherish - as long as someone else does the dirty work defending them.Before anyone starts about the legality or otherwise of our Forces in the Gulf just remember that the 15 were taken hostage whilst doing a fully legal, UN sanctioned job trying to stop even more weapons being imported to kill even more innocent people (of all religious persuasions). They did not want to be there, they would prefer, as you no doubt do, to be safe in the company of their friends and family. Just occasionally that safety comes at a price, the same price that was paid by the same type of squaddies etc about 60+ years ago and resulted in you being able to have your house in a free Europe.Your sanctimoneous, throwaway, smart alec comment above makes me want to puke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 [quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="Jane and Danny"]No thank you. I don't want The Tehran 15 and the St Malo 1, even if they are free. Danny[/quote].Your sanctimoneous, throwaway, smart alec comment above makes me want to puke.[/quote]You left out bizarre, Steve. Probably a few other things too, but no matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 I was being as polite as I could be, irrespective of exactly how I feel (not very polite in this case) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 [quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="Jane and Danny"]No thank you. I don't want The Tehran 15 and the St Malo 1, even if they are freeDanny[/quote]Your sanctimoneous, throwaway, smart alec comment above makes me want to puke.[/quote]You forgot ignorant, selfish and moronic Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 [quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="Jane and Danny"]No thank you. I don't want The Tehran 15 and the St Malo 1, even if they are freeDanny[/quote]I am sure the St Malo 1 is not concerned that you dont want him, however its an issue of free speech in his case. Thats the same free speech that the Tehran 15 defend. That is your free speech plus every other freedom you probably cherish - as long as someone else does the dirty work defending them.Before anyone starts about the legality or otherwise of our Forces in the Gulf just remember that the 15 were taken hostage whilst doing a fully legal, UN sanctioned job trying to stop even more weapons being imported to kill even more innocent people (of all religious persuasions). They did not want to be there, they would prefer, as you no doubt do, to be safe in the company of their friends and family. Just occasionally that safety comes at a price, the same price that was paid by the same type of squaddies etc about 60+ years ago and resulted in you being able to have your house in a free Europe.Your sanctimoneous, throwaway, smart alec comment above makes me want to puke.[/quote]WOW! Firstly, I am amazed that my "sanctimoneous, throwaway, smart alec comment"??? has such power over you. You night do well to get a bucket ready if you read this. If I had the faintest idea who or what the St Malo 1 is/are/was/were then perhaps I would be able to respond.Secondly, Would you really like me to seriously comment on your incredibly simplistic forum signature regarding the British service people held in Iran or on your highly partisan and condescending rant about the nature of free speech?I thought my post was much funnier.regardsDanny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Dordogne Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Is anybody really suggesting that there is any similarity between the 15 service personnel held in the Gulf and a guy being banned from this Forum for breaking the rules again.To link the two is just beyond comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 [quote user="Bugbear"][quote user="powerdesal"][quote user="Jane and Danny"] No thank you. I don't want The Tehran 15 and the St Malo 1, even if they are freeDanny[/quote]Your sanctimoneous, throwaway, smart alec comment above makes me want to puke.[/quote]You forgot ignorant, selfish and moronic Steve.[/quote]WOW again,we are very sensitive todayDanny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 "I thought my post was much funnier."I think that may sum up your problem.I was just thinking that a thread like this was doing well without moderation, then an idiot turns up to make mock of a serious post.Well perhaps we can self-moderate here.No-one seems to agree with you, Danny. Everyone seems to think your posts are puerile and unhelpful. Perhaps you could consider making a sensible contribution, or if not, leaving it to people who are.Simply being offensive is neither funny, nor clever, nor big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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