Go Back To London?

[Marym2]

 

Hi

Just got this email, ( Think this was in last nights paper) as Ken has already bugg"""d up the 2012 costs, what would make you want to come back to London/ England, would this help?

 

Don't know if you have heard about this but Ken Livingstone is planning to use tax payer's money to build an enormous mosque costing an estimated 100M in the docklands. What do you think about it? Wouldn't it be better to spend the money on a new hospital or improved transport facilities??

BIGGER THAN ST PAULS!!!
The plan is for the mosque to be so big that people flying in from all over the world for the 2012 Olympics will it see it as the biggest landmark in London , bigger than St Pauls, Westminster Abbey or Wembley Stadium
 
Take a second to cast your vote in The Evening Standard on-line poll to determine public opinion about whether a mega mosque should be built for the Olympics.

The vote so far is 62 % in favour. It looks like the Muslim
community is casting its vote in droves, and as usual the Christians   are burying their heads in the sand....   
 
After voting, forward this to as many people as
you can. Here's the link: 
 

  http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/poll/poll-18791-details/ques-18669-id/%C2%A3100m+mosque%3A+Vote+now/poll.do

 

Just to keep you on your toes!

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stgeorge.do

Al Murry Pub Landlord For PM

[Dick Smith]

Mary, you make me so proud to be British....

Not.

[Cerise]

As far as I can see it is the muslims themselves who are paying for it, not the corporation.  The corporation can grant planning permission, but so what - if any religion want to spend loads of money on a church why can't they?  Sure we could build a nice protestant church in France if we had the money and we wanted to do so.

 

[Will]

Don't worry, it's not only the muslims. In our town in England the Baptists have recently demolished a chapel, which was too small and falling apart anyway, and are replacing it with a shiny modern church on the same site. You should see the outcry that is causing.

[Marym2]

[quote user="Marym2"]

 

Hi

Just got this email, ( Think this was in last nights paper) as Ken has already bugg"""d up the 2012 costs, what would make you want to come back to London/ England, would this help?

 

Don't know if you have heard about this but Ken Livingstone is planning to use tax payer's money to build an enormous mosque costing an estimated 100M in the docklands. What do you think about it? Wouldn't it be better to spend the money on a new hospital or improved transport facilities??

BIGGER THAN ST PAULS!!!
The plan is for the mosque to be so big that people flying in from all over the world for the 2012 Olympics will it see it as the biggest landmark in London , bigger than St Pauls, Westminster Abbey or Wembley Stadium
 
Take a second to cast your vote in The Evening Standard on-line poll to determine public opinion about whether a mega mosque should be built for the Olympics.

The vote so far is 62 % in favour. It looks like the Muslim
community is casting its vote in droves, and as usual the Christians   are burying their heads in the sand....   
 
After voting, forward this to as many people as
you can. Here's the link: 
 

  http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/poll/poll-18791-details/ques-18669-id/%C2%A3100m+mosque%3A+Vote+now/poll.do

 

The First two lines are mine the rest was in the paper, proud to be English! Have nothing to say about British thank you.

[/quote]

[Logan]

Please explain to a simple mind why London Muslims should not have a large mosque as big as they please provided it passes the planning laws.

[Marym2]

Another snippet just in case nobody has read the report.

Tablighi Jamaat has been described by French intelligence as "an antechamber of fundamentalism", something the group denies.

Plans by the Muslim sect Tablighi Jamaat to build the mosque have aroused concern as the group has been accused of drawing young men towards an extremist version of Islam.

"This will be nothing less than an Islamic quarter of our capital city. But has anyone asked the people of West Ham? The non-Muslims? The moderate Muslims? The Muslim women?"

Tony Arbour, Conservative spokesman on planning for the London Assembly, said: "For this major decision to be taken by a quango is undemocratic. Local residents have been shut out of the process."

British Press

[Dick Smith]

Near to where I live a large group of local Muslims bought and rebuilt an Express Dairy bottling plant into the largest mosque in Western Europe - I know it sounds bizarre, but it's true. It now looks wonderful, a large, airy building with an elegant 50' minaret, lots of parking space for Friday prayers etc.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,2763,1054312,00.html

A quote from elsewhere: "It is the largest mosque in western Europe and attracted much publicity

worldwide at its inauguration in October 2003, winning high acclaim for

its design and elegance. It was rated among the most beautiful

buildings in the world, and has become an immediate tourist attraction,

receiving thousands of visitors every year."

What's the problem?  Or do I know the answer to that already...

[TreizeVents]

[quote user="Marym2"]

Another snippet just in case nobody has read the report.

Tablighi Jamaat has been described by French intelligence as "an antechamber of fundamentalism", something the group denies.

Plans by the Muslim sect Tablighi Jamaat to build the mosque have aroused concern as the group has been accused of drawing young men towards an extremist version of Islam.

"This will be nothing less than an Islamic quarter of our capital city. But has anyone asked the people of West Ham? The non-Muslims? The moderate Muslims? The Muslim women?"

Tony Arbour, Conservative spokesman on planning for the London Assembly, said: "For this major decision to be taken by a quango is undemocratic. Local residents have been shut out of the process."

[/quote]

Hi Mary M

I read the article, noticed the bits you emphasize, and looked them up.  I am always wary of journalists, when they say "has been described" as they usually don't give a source.  "French intelligence"?  Now how would you check that, and would you believe it?  If you look long enough you can find someone, somewhere who will describe anything as anything.  Its a form of lazy journalism.  Looking on the web a bit, it is not crystal clear whether this group is some kind of terrorist front or just a seriously fundamentalist Islamic group, open to all kinds of Muslims.  There are plenty of fundamentalist religious groups of the Christians in Britian.  There are also some fundamentalist Jewish and Buddhist groups.  Is it up to us, you, the government, to decide how "fundamentalist" a group is, and then forbid them from being in Britain?  Which government body does this?  If they are organising violent attmepts to overthrow the government, fair enough.  Is there evidence they are doing this? 

Anyway, there are "quarters" of all kinds in every global city, in fact in any decent sized city at all.  In fact, this is what makes cities interesting.  Are these quarters where gay, Jewish, Arab, Turkish, rich white, Chinese or other groups live illegal?  Do we think Chinatown (expanding rapidly since I arrived in Britian in 1966) a dangerous tendency?  Obviously people want to live with their kind of folks, certainly when they first arrive.  Are you opposed to the Stamford Hill "quarter"?  Paris is full of quarters, although the white French rich people are trying to slowly move them all out of Paris.

I certainly agree that quangos are undemocratic.  But this is not a new invention, and they always have been utterly undemocratic.  That's why they were invented, to avoid democracy.  This quango decision-making has been going on for many decades.  It would be good to see what you think of quangos in general, which are very much a part of every modern bureaucratic society.  And furthermore, it is pretty clear that the council does not have jurisdiction according to present law.

I go with those who say that any religious groups that can raise the money for a beautiful building for their people should be allowed.  You don't have to ask everyone in town if you can build a building, just the "proper authorities".  I like the look of mosques anyway.  One thing that I noted in my moments of web research is that the group in question is VERY good at raising money.  Bigger than St. Pauls?  How many buildings in London are bigger now?

Nah, anti-Muslim pap!

[RumziGal]

[quote user="Marym2"]

Hi

Just got this email, ( Think this was in last nights paper) as Ken has already bugg"""d up the 2012 costs, what would make you want to come back to London/ England, would this help?

[/quote]

Why would it make any difference to my decision?    I already live in an area of France with a large population of Muslims, and you know, I kind of like it.   A flash mosque would be cool.

[Ron Avery]

"The First two lines are mine the rest was in the paper,

 Yeah right!!!!.[:'(]  I think that a lot more than the first two lines are yours, MM,  perhaps most of it is your interpretation?  Certainly the first two paragraphs and maybe the last two?  When you add to that the facts are people of London are not paying a penny for this building, and the article does not even say that ,  that makes the only paragraph actually correct and possibly from the Standard the one headed Bigger than St Pauls, so you wrote the rest yourself didn't you?   So what did the Standard, (as If I really care) actually say?  Well it said

"Although no formal planning application has yet been made, the proposal has stirred up substantial argument." and sold a lot of papers[Www] 

By the way the last time I was in the UK, the Greater London Authority and the Mayor of London were elected not Quangos, so IF if a Quango is to decide, that is IF an application is made it will not be Ken Livingstone having anything to do with it anyway will it? 

When you take on board that the Evening Standard is the evening Daily Mail the paper of the far right, and is renowned in London for publishing ill informed crap, it sort of puts your post into perspective doesn't it[:P].  

[Renaud]

If the Mosque passes through the usual planning processes and is financed by the Moslem community it is hard to see the problem. I am slightly surprised that there are so many Muslims in docklands.

But couldn't they just have the Dome?

[Marym2]

I do not care who said what. Again the two lines were mine the rest was a round robin email,  However look at this link http://www.geocities.com/londondestruction/claremont.html and you may see where I am coming from.

[Dick Smith]

I see - it wasn't a newspaper article, it was a 'round robin'. From where?

Edit - it seems to be all over some of the scummier websites. In the better ones it has been instantly dissed, as here.

Oh - and it isn't going to happen, according to the Daily Telegraph. But telling us that would have spoiled the story...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/18/nmosque18.xml

[Marym2]

Marym2 wrote:

Hi Just got this email, ( Think this was in last nights paper) as Ken has already bugg"""d up the 2012 costs, what would make you want to come back to London/ England, would this help

[Dick Smith]

Just using a bigger font doesn't make it true...

If you are saying that this round robin isn't all over the net - then that just isn't true, it is.

[Quillan]

[quote user="Renaud"]

If the Mosque passes through the usual planning processes and is financed by the Moslem community it is hard to see the problem. I am slightly surprised that there are so many Muslims in docklands.

But couldn't they just have the Dome?

[/quote]

Docklands is actually a group of London boroughs and as those that have lived there prior to its development will tell you its more commonly known as the East End.

Historically the East End of London has been an area where many immigrants have initially settled from the Huguenots through the Jew's and to the modern day Muslims. Every one of these groups have helped to enrich this part of London making it a truly multicultural place to live. I lived there for 12 years, attended many concerts in the docks but the thing I loved the most was the annual fish festival where one could experience fish cooked in many different styles from all over the world by local people.  I don't miss the inner city pollution but I do miss the culture. Perhaps France could learn a little from there. There is a fantastic choice of restaurants and cuisine from pie and mash, bagels and salt beef, Chinese, to curries and the quality of the food is out of this world.

Personally even if I still lived there a new mosque would not worry me, there are quite a few anyway and they never impacted on my life so whats another going to do? As another said it's there money and I epect they will have to pay some sort of rates which can only help improve local amenities. Don't forget most of the people who work in Docklands don't actually live there.

Dick - there's a fantastic Mosque just off of Knightsbridge between the tube station and the V&A I use to pass it every day on my way to work. I believe its some form of educational establishment and library as well but I forget its name now. Anyway nobody seems to mind it being there amongst all those rich people and why should they.

[Dick Smith]

"Anyway nobody seems to mind it being there amongst all those rich people and why should they."

Quite...

[Ron Avery]

So you didn't write "The First two lines are mine the rest was in the paper",  it was somebody else[8-)]

The truth is that very little that you have churned out is even in the Standard article, and the E mail you now say you are quoting from is a complete fantasy and made up from mis-guided rumours and whispers.  Why don't you ask the author to apply for a job at the Daily Mail.

I sincerely hope the people of Brittany do not hold the same feelings towards you that you appear to hold against people of other nationalities who have gone to live in a foreign country.

[Will]

Nobody is forcing anybody to go to London if they don't want to.

I am perfectly happy to visit there, or any other part of Britain, as I do frequently. Just because I have a home in France doesn't mean I do not consider Britain is a great country, and it saddens me to see that some people have such a low opinion of their own country that they see fit to quote exaggerated xenophobic propaganda to justify their position.

 

[Llwyncelyn]

Will I am a Baptist and from the Rhondda its a touchy subject chapels!  Or am I am Methodist I went to both.  Indeed my late Father my Uncle and my cousins were all Lay Preachers and I was truly the black sheep of the family.  I am awaiting my fate for I was informed at a very early age that I would go 'down below'  in that I would not follow the path that was set for me.  Still I went to the Anniversay Services three times on the due date.  Don't think that Tom Jones went to Chapel or indeed Charlotte Church?  Is there a moral here?

rdgs

[Dick Smith]

That's the sort of tangent that needs a ricochet sound-effect...

[Tony F Dordogne]

Until I moved here I lived in the East End for mopst of my life and because of the work I did I was tangentially involved in this project.

The site was originally a chemical works next to West Ham station and was a stinking eyesore most of the time.

The site was cleared about 10 years ago and since then has been fiddled about with, some temporary buildings erected and then taken down, toilets built and then taken down and generally used for large scale Muslim gatherings if it was  being used at all.  It's still an eyesore and any proper building on the site, no matter what it's use, would be an improvement.

Coincidentally J was born and bred just a few hundred yards from the milk bottling plant in Morden that was demolished and then rebuilt as a mosque.  As Dick said, it is a wonderful looking building and interestingly, the Muslim faction that built it is alienated from the two major Muslim factions in the UK.

Interesting that the opposition to this potential new building is being co-ordinated by the Tories and the Telegraph, nothing new there then, can remember the Tories voting against every non-white, non-hertosexual, non-British, pro-little England project on the two London strategic bodies that I worked with for many years.

 

Who gives a stuff about the St Malo 1?

 

 

[Unknown]

Going back to mosques, I don't really care what they build in Docklands.  But what does annoy me is if I had enough money could I build a christian church in an islamic country?

[Dick Smith]

In some you could, in some you couldn't. The aim is to bring Islam to the stage where it is self-confident enough to rediscover its tolerant and enlightened past. That will only be done by dialogue and by the example of enlightenment, not hatred and abuse.

I teach a very fine young man who goes to the Morden mosque and wants to become a missionary to try to persuade other muslims to his moderate, enlightened point of view. So I try to help him, to talk to him about world religions and their relationships with each other, the past times when Islam and Christianity were actually pretty close, and so on.

He took on the task of our group's Red Nose Day charity activity. To help him he chose another boy who has been a pain to me for months. With the 'missionary's' support and guidance he flourished, and has just finished a very positive work experience.

For verily it is said; one hand washeth the other.