Single and moving to France

[Scottish Bill]

Can I ask how easy other single people found it to settle in France?

I'm single and moved to Penang (Malaysia) when I took early retirement. Penang has good food, a great climate and (most important at the time) a low cost of living compared to Europe. I'm happy here and have made several good friends. However part of me still wants to move to France.

I still visit France on holiday each year and I'm trying to improve my French. I'm thinking of moving to France in about 3 years time but I'm wondering if I will settle there as easily as I did in  Penang.

Bill

[NormanH]

Cynical me says that is is easier to make friends in a country where you have a relatively high income than one in which you are at the bottom of the earnings table.

So it depends a bit on your financial situation.If you have income from the UK, or whether you depend on earning a living for example.

The other element is your language skills. I assume that English is more accepted in Malaysia.

In France you can feel isolated in a small community.  It is hard to ever achieve the fluency of expression you have in your mother tongue, and strangely it becomes more rather than less frustrating.  The more you understand of what is being said around you the more your inadequacy to  fully explain yourself is felt.

But then from some of the reactions I have received on this Forum I suspect I no longer have that in English either..

[mint]

As NormanH says, your financial circumstances will be the crux of the matter.

Although I haven't been to Penang for many years, the last time I was on holiday there about 10 years ago, things were incredibly cheap.

If your income is received in sterling, you are going to get one heck of a shock paying for things in euros as against in ringgits!

No doubt, you have knowledge of France as you come here on holiday.  But, be aware that the pound has fallen approximately 20 per cent against the euro and from feeling like some sort of Eastern potentate, you could feel like quite a financially challenged "inactif".

Why not try a few months' renting and see how you get on?  Preferably come now in the winter season and you might find you really prefer the sunshine and buzz of Penang after all!

[Kitty]

As Sweet suggested, renting for a few winter months is a good idea to get an idea of whether moving to France is for you.  No amount of advice on this Fourm will not really help you guage whether you, personally, can cope.

I rented in January, February and March.  Winter lets are cheap.  I found a house in the internet and took a 2 week rent with an option to remain there for longer.  This was just as well because the actual house was not like the internet description and so I moved out during the 2 week period to a better house and got a fantastic deal because I was there in person.

The winter is very different from the summer (colder, darker, socially more isolating) and so if you like it in the winter, you'll like it in the summer.

Be aware that vast parts of France are very cold in the winter, especially at night.  I'm on the south west coast and so winters are milder than central parts.

 

[Scottish Bill]

Thanks for your comments.

Penang is not as cheap as it used to be. Electrictity prices increased by 26% in June and inflation is currently running about 8%. However the fall in the value of the pound has affected me more. I was getting 7 ringgit to the pound in January but now only 5.3 - a drop of 24%. All my income (pension + annuity) comes from the UK.

I've got an idea of prices from visits (most recently in May this year) so I know that I won't be as well off if I move to France. However I won't struggle financially. And if I'm living in France my UK state pension will be increased annually. If I'm still in Penang when I reach 65, the state pension will be frozen at its starting rate.

I've got French friends in Paris but I'd prefer to live in the south where winters are milder. I had already thought of renting for a few months to see how that compared to visiting on holiday and to help improve my French. As for language skills, I'm doing some home revision now but I'd attend the local Alliance Francaise for a while if I decided that I really do want to make the move.

Thanks Sweet. I will probably follow your advice and rent in the winter months as that will give me a better idea of French life during quiet periods. Thanks also to you Cathy. I won't tie myself into a long lease before I arrive.

There is a lot for me to consider. I would want to live in a town or city rather than a small community and that will probably mean paying more for a house or apartment. It would be nice to have a garden again. I might not have as busy as social life as I do in Penang but then I lived very quietly when I was in Inverness. In France I'd get more visits from family and UK friends than I get here in Penang....and I could still have holidays in Penang.

Bill

[mint]

Well, Bill, you seem to have been thinking things through very well on your own without our help!

As I see it, you're lucky in that you only have yourself to consider and so you can make decisions and act on them without having to consider wife/partner and/or children.

Now is probably a good time to try it out in France.  The housing market is quiet (therefore you should find a place to rent more easily and without paying a fortune).  You might like to move around 2 or 3 different areas before finally deciding.

As Cathy says, if you like it in the winter- and believe me the weather can be pretty miserable here in winter (I live not far from Cathy and today, it is drizzly and grey and cold and "triste" as the French would say)-then you'll probably love it in the summer.

Good to hear you are preparing yourself with learning the language.  Knowledge of French will endoubtedly help your enjoyment of living here.

I do understand utterly your wish to come to France to live.  After all, that is exactly what I have done!

So Good Luck and let us know how you get on![:D]

[NormanH]

Good luck if you do decide to come over. You may find that being single is a bonus for learning French as you won't be speaking English all day long with a partner, and you will be forced to use French in daily living.

I had the added help of a French lady who shared my house for a few years, so I got an intensive course.

I would strongly advise you to get involved in  local Associations.

In a reasonable sized town there are hundreds.

You will find that the pound has dropped against the Euro even since May, and rents in the larger southern town such as Montpellier  are quite high.

Perpignan might be a possibility with access to Spain very easy.

If you are interested in that area there is a Forum about it here

[Tancrède]

[quote user="Scottish Bill"]Can I ask how easy other single people found it to settle in France?[/quote]

It is hard to envisage, without more information, what particular difficulties you foresee arising from being single in France.  I am single, and moving to France is the best thing I have ever done, and I have not regretted it in any way whatever.

A serious disadvantage that many single people suffer in France is a post mortem one.  Namely, that inheritance tax is levied at a particularly punitive rate upon single people who have no close relations, and your estate will (in broad terms) be raided of 60% of its value in order to give further comfort to the massive and idle bureaucracy of an essentially absolutist state, and other unworthy causes.

If it is not your wish that the efforts of your lifetime should evaporate in this way, then there exist certain steps can most effectively be taken before you become fiscally resident.

[Scottish Bill]

I think my main worry about moving to France is how easy it would be to make friends. My priority will therefore be to improve my French. I will look to join local Associations as Norman suggests.

Being single has plus and minus points. I don't have to consider anyone else if I want to make the move to France and I'll be forced into speaking French every day. On the other hand, I'll have nobody to moan to when things get me frustrated and I'll be dining alone every day until I make friends.

French bureaucracy can't be any worse than it is here in Malaysia. Apart from all the form-filling (often in forms with no English translation) and providing photocopies of passports, everything moves very slowly.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over inheritance tax. If only some of my estate goes to my three nephews as planned, then so be it. They've all got good jobs anyway.

I really liked Montpellier when I was there in September last year but I thought it could be an expensive place to rent or buy property. Perpignan is a possibility. I briefly passed through it on the way from Montpelier to Barcelona (on a bus as my train was cancelled due to a strike) and it looked interesting.  I might also look at Arles - I had a wonderful holiday there some years ago. I also want to look at the south west. I do like a nice glass of Bordeaux.

However a long stay is out of the question this winter. I've got friends from Scotland visiting at present and I'll be spending Christmas with friends in Singapore. I'll be visiting Australia in February and then my sister will be back over in April. That means I have plenty of time to do more research.

Bill

[babcock]

I noticed in one of your posts that you are not yet 65. Be sure to check out the health insurance requirements (and costs)

[Kitty]

Bordeaux is a vibrant place.  A new tram system has been installed during the last few years and you don't need a car to get around.  In fact, a car in central Bordeaux is a positive disadvantage.

If you have friends and relatives visiting, there are Easyjet flights from Luton all year round (and from provincial UK towns in the summer).  The train service from the UK is quick, especially if you change at Lille (just a platform change) rather than Paris (a metro journey).

There is an active British Community - see:

http://www.bordeauxbritish.com/

 

 

[Scottish Bill]

Thanks for the reminder babcock. I have health insurance here in Penang but it doesn't cover GP or outpatient visits. I expect this is one of the things which will cost me more.

With it's excellent transport links, Bordeaux sounds better than I imagined. I like the idea of a tram service too since I don't drive. I'll check out that website Cathy.

[NormanH]

When you start looking you might find this site useful.

It has quite a lot of factual information on the towns, but also a section for people to say what they like and dislike about the place.

The comments are in French, but that will help with learning the language, and you get a view that isn't based on the need to sell a property, or that of other English people who are in love with the charm.

Of course you can just google the name of the town, and get the official site, but that doesn't give you the same comments.

[Scottish Bill]

Thanks Norman. That site will be useful now when I'm doing my French language 'homework' and for finding out more about the places I want to check out on my next visit to France.

I will probably be back in France late summer/early autumn next year. I plan to do a mini tour to see some of the places I'm considering. I'll return for a longer period in winter when I've narrowed my choice down to one or two.

Bill

[mint]

Bill, I envy you in many ways.  One of our nicest, most enjoyable times have been when we spent many weeks driving around, looking for property and visiting different towns and villages.

You will already appreciate that "looking around" with a view to living in a place is vastly different from looking around as a tourist might.  I am certain you will come across much that will intrique and enchant you as well as fill you with doubt and a feeling of what-the-hell-am-I-thinking-of!

More than most on the forum, I understand what you have said about Malaysian bureaucracy.  A few years ago, I had a contract of work in Malaysia that lasted about a month and I had to fill in one of their tax return forms.

That alone was enough to make me tear my hair out but, what was infinitely worse was that thereafter, every year at about September time, I'd get a fresh tax return to fill in regardless of the fact that I'd paid the tax on the money I earned whilst there and my telling them repeatedly that I didn't live there and that I no longer had any work there.

For all I know, a tax form would have been sent to my previous address in the UK.  I'd avoided leaving a forwarding address and I dare say there is a minor tax official somewhere in the Malaysian tax office still trying to send me forms to fill!

French bureaucracy seems positively lax after all that.

Anyway, I digress.  What I meant to say was that I think you'd find the people around here (Bordeaux as in Cathy's post) pretty friendly if you yourself made a bit of an effort. 

These are exciting times for you and I am sure you'd enjoy the "travelling" as well as the "arriving".

[Scottish Bill]

Thanks Sweet 17. Some friends think I'm crazy to even consider moving from Penang to France. They see only the sunshine, the good food and bargain prices but living here is not quite the same as coming on holiday.

I enjoy living in Penang most of the time but there are things which annoy or frustrate me. There is the racial tension - the Malays get benefits denied to Chinese and Indian citizens. There is press censorship, discrimination and a lot of corruption. To give a further example of bureaucracy, let me tell you about my experience of banking here.

I opened a savings account at HSBC in Penang before I moved over - with a letter of introduction from HSBC in the UK and a photo copy of my passport. After moving I wanted to open a current account so I had to fill in a long form and provide another photocopy of my passport. The bank still had to refer back to the UK before issuing a cheque book. I put some of the profit from my house in Scotland into a fixed deposit - another form and another photocopy of my passport. I asked for a credit card - no problem as long as my UK bank confirmed that I was a good customer. But that also meant another form, another photocopy of my passport and a declaration signed in front of a Commissioner of Oaths (at a charge of course). My fixed deposit came up for renewal and I wanted to roll it over for another 12 months. Yes, another form and another photocopy of my passport. I have to pay for my cheque book and there are annual charges for the ATM and credit cards.

I first thought about moving to France many years but the time wasn't right when I had the chance of early retirement. I'm looking forward to my next trip to France. I always do but this time I won't just be going to enjoy the food, the culture and the atmosphere. It's an exciting thought but I'm not going to rush into a decision.

I didn't have too much trouble making friends here and I hope it would be the same if I moved to France. I'll have to work on my French though.

Bill

[tegwini]

Hi Bill

I can understand your reasons to want to change - even though the  English (sorry to leave the Scots out of this!) and French have a long history of war & antipathy things are different now and I have not really felt too much of an outsider and have a few French friends- and we don't yet live there.   There's lots we have in common, differences yes, but I always feel more in common than outside of Europe.  French and English, for example, have a lot of shared words, and at least we use the same alphabet - not so in Penang. Other similarities are derived from our history in Europe and shared Christian  history and values.

You are quite correct wanting to learn  french,  and I also used the Alliance Francaise decades back to brush up my french prior to going to university in my mid 20s.   I am still working on it and find the following helpful and hope that you will too.  www.bitesizedlanguages.com    useful and free - with clickable sound.  Bitesized (not the one connected with the BBC on the web) , arrives daily with a very short lesson - a couple of minutes.  I'm very behind with mine at present.  The BBC web site is also good.

As Sweet says it's also fun house hunting, and as present I expect mobiliers will be very helpful - more than usual.  Watch out for the presssure they will no doubt put on you sign - we got daily phone calls in the UK, too many, too early some days, and refused to sign even the compromis de vente until we were sure and ready.

Regards & good luck

Tegwini

[Sprogster]

Bill, the three major considerations for you are probably language, health insurance cover and the weather.

The ability to pick up another language differs from person to person and it is something that gets more difficult as we get older. Therefore, despite all efforts, obtaining fluency in another language can be illusive for some. 

Health insurance in France can be problematic for foreign early retirees under pensionable age, because of the unrealistic comprehensive level of private insurance cover required by the French authorities, means it is unobtainable if you have any pre-existing health conditions.Without this cover you cannot obtain legal residency, so it is not just a matter of cost.

Lastly, as previous posters have mentioned, the Winter weather in much of inland France can be substantively colder than Southern England, as it does not benefit from the Gulf Stream, so sensible to check this out by visiting in Winter as you say you intend to.

[Keni]

Withj the pensions looking set to rise over the next few years - I am sure it will be minimal however, not being in the Eu at present, as you mention, your pension will be frozen and you will not get the annual rises or heating allowances etc.

If you feel you can live on your money, allowing for taxes, electricity et al., then I would say rent for a term and see what happens, better to have tried and failed than not tried at all!

Good Luck

[Patf]

Bill - we lived in Singapore for 2 years, quite some time ago. I used to go up to Malaya regularly with my job, mostly to Johore Bahru, though we did have a month's holiday in Penang and the Cameron Highlands.

However pleasant the climate, and interesting the environs, there's no doubt the way of life and mentality of the people there is SO different from that in Europe. You are really a stranger there, and have much more in common with the french than the malays, chinese or tamils.

My bet is that the longer you stay there the more stressful you will find the contrasts. We certainly found a lot of physical and mental illness among those europeans who had been there for a while. Not all, but most.

[Scottish Bill]

I'm delighted to get so much help on this forum.

Patf -  I have a couple of British friends here but I spend most of my time socialising with Chinese friends. We have enough in common to enjoy our times together.  I don't feel stressed but I do get frustrated at times. However I've only been here for 26 months and things could change.

Tegwini - The Scots and the French were allies before Scotland 'lost its independence' and became part of Britain. Maybe that's why I feel an affinity with the French. [:)]

Thanks for the tip about Bitesized. Sounds like a good way of forcing myself to do a little studying each day.

Progster - I'm not too worried about the winter weather in France. Before moving to Penang, I spent 21 years living in Inverness, in the north of Scotland. Inverness could be pretty cold in the long winters there! Anyway I have lived by the sea for almost all of my life and I'd hope to find somewhere not too far from the coast if I moved to France.

I did Higher French at school...and yes, that was a long time ago. I have a reasonable grounding in the language but I accept I might never become fluent.

Health insurance might be the stumbling block because I do have a pre-existing condition - asthma. It has been totally under control for many years though so I hope I could get cover, albeit at a price. I'll definitely need to look into this.

Bill