Such sex discrimination.....

[cooperlola]

[quote user="just john "][quote user="sweet 17"]

[quote user="Thibault"]  There was a similar incident of name-calling regarding Gordon Brown and the fact that he is blind in one eye. [/quote]

Now I do agree totally with that, Thibault. There are many things that one can do nothing about:  one's gender/sex, physical characteristics (short/tall, black/white) etc.  As someone or other has said, sure, if I am ignorant, I can get educated, etc but if I am black, a woman, homosexual, there isn't a great deal I can do about it? [/quote]

Call me pedantic, but the origin of calling Gordon Brown ''one-eyed'' was made regarding his lack of perspicacity as PM, in ignorance of his physical ailment, so not a slant on his physical characteristics.

[/quote]Surely it was using his physical "defect" as a metaphor for his policitical one (or one of them)?  Still, beneath the wit of most inteligent human beings, or it should be.  However, as the remark came from Mr Clarkson, that was no surprise.  He is hardly known for his tact and diplomacy, is he?

[mint]

As I take great care not to watch/read anything by the so-called Mr Clarkson, I don't get irritated and I keep my blood pressure within normal limits.

[Chancer]

[quote user="Thibault"]Like an earlier poster, I am amazed at the personal venom directed at the French Head of State and his wife.  Politicians should be judged on their record, not on things they cannot do anything about such as their height.  There was a similar incident of name-calling regarding Gordon Brown and the fact that he is blind in one eye. [/quote]

And I posted pretty much the same comments of displeasure on that thread. I have physical similarities with both Gordon Brown and Mr Sarkozy, I am below average height and have lost the use of one eye, I knew straight away that it is a disability for Gordon Brown when I saw him descending the steps of an aircraft, he was trying to look confident and statesman like, looking straight at the cameras and waving to the crowd whilst at the same time looking uneasy, gripping the hand rail with his other hand and feeling his way down with his toes but having to go faster than he was capable of.

The personal attacks on girlfriends/partners I have also had, its a sort of male one up man ship; if they fail to put you down or make you look inferior in front of them, or worst if she defends you then the insults start behind her back but often within earshot. Whats she doing with that shortass? - I bet he has to stand on a box to kiss/***** her! - I have heard when she goes out she carries a mattress on her back in case she meets and old friend! - that guy not only got a free consultation from me but my girlfriend also humiliated him in front of all his buddies.

Strange how it never happens with the plain or ordinary ones, just the stunners.

[idun]

In the 70's our male boss, called my male colleague a 'male boot' as he had slept with just about all the females we worked with, me and a couple of others being the exceptions.

So even in the 70's, this very pleasant man with a lovely family was branded.

If french politicians would like a little respect, then maybe they should earn it. And Sarkozy, would that I could think of anything even half decent to say about him, but I cannot.

[Thibault]

[quote user="idun"]If french politicians would like a little respect, then maybe they should earn it. And Sarkozy, would that I could think of anything even half decent to say about him, but I cannot.[/quote]

Disliking a politician for their policies and approach is understandable, as is attacking him/her/them for that.  Using gratuitous personal insults related either to physical characteristics or the media perceptions of past personal behaviour is not. Also unacceptable in the 21st century is the continuation of double standards in relation to men and women.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Thibault"]

[quote user="idun"]If french politicians would like a little respect, then maybe they should earn it. And Sarkozy, would that I could think of anything even half decent to say about him, but I cannot.[/quote]

Disliking a politician for their policies and approach is understandable, as is attacking him/her/them for that.  Using gratuitous personal insults related either to physical characteristics or the media perceptions of past personal behaviour is not. Also unacceptable in the 21st century is the continuation of double standards in relation to men and women.

[/quote]Bang on.

[Chancer]

I second that.

If only I were able to express my feelings so succinctly!

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Chancer"]

If only I were able to express my feelings so succinctly!

[/quote][:D]

That's why Thibault has posted 264 times and we're in the thousands, Chance.

[Stan Streason]

I'm not even sure where I am going with this.  About 8 months ago I was at a conference - approximately 300 delegates split about 40% female/60% male. 

Even within the smaller group I was with there were a number of females who clearly intended to "do the business" that night.  At a guess they were all successful.  There were probably lots of males in a similar mood, but given the groups of young men still in the bar in the early hours of the morning their percentage success rate was nowhere near as good.

I wonder if the differing views irrationaly ingraned in many of us are based on the fact that if a woman wants to she probably can whereas a man who suceeds is counted as lucky. 

Difference in feelings summed up in the Jimmy Carr joke.   "one of my friends has the nickname sh*gger.............................she does'nt like it."

[cooperlola]

In the days when I attended such events myself, about 90% of the guys, especially once they had a few drinks inside them, would have accepted an invitation from me if it had been offered (and many of them were married or in long-term relationships).  And I'm no beauty, believe me.  What is more, quite a few of them seemed to think that I "intended to do the business" when I did not.  

[Min]

[quote user="Thibault"]

Disliking a politician for their policies and approach is understandable, as is attacking him/her/them for that.  Using gratuitous personal insults related either to physical characteristics or the media perceptions of past personal behaviour is not. Also unacceptable in the 21st century is the continuation of double standards in relation to men and women.

[/quote]

Well said.

[Hoddy]

" What is more, quite a few of them seemed to think that I "intended to do the business" when I did not."

That really strikes a chord Coops. It's a good example of men and women just not understanding each other. What seems to women to be ordinary friendliness is so often misinterpreted. Occasionally at these gatherings I made friends with another woman and spent some time with her - this was on occasions interpreted as evidence that we were both lesbians.

Hoddy

[woolybanana]

What strange worlds you must all live in; I have been to dozens of conferences but it never crossed my mind that it was an all change rutting session for some. Odd

[Alan Zoff]

Yes, seems like I went to the wrong ones, too

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Alan Zoff"]I went to the wrong ones, too[/quote]Hmm.  Fighting off guys you don't fancy in the name of work is not much fun.  Trust me, you went to the right ones (or perhaps not - again an example of what is sauce for the gander not always being sauce for the goose.)

[woolybanana]

Not a saucy goose then?[kiss]

[cooperlola]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Not a saucy goose then?[kiss][/quote]Rather depends upon  the gander.[:)]  Which I'm sure is true in reverse.  It's just the assumptions which are made which are so insulting.  And if a woman rejects a guy's advances then there's another name that she'll  get given (the second word rhymes with freezer). 

[woolybanana]

You speak a language I understand not!

[just john]

Diamond geezer obviously[Www]

[Catalpa]

[quote user="cooperlola"] Hmm.  Fighting off guys you don't fancy in the name of work is not much fun. [/quote]

And when you've successfully - and politely - shown absolutely no interest, you depart knowing that by the morning they're likely to pretend they were successful anyway.

[idun]

I am lost in this thread.

As I have said in the past, even if Sarkozy was as tall as DeGaulle, he would still be an odious little man.

And respect for french politicans, can anyone tell me something about any one of them that is good?

However, before you do,could you please tell me what that particular person's expenses were, how many people they pistoned into positions and then we'll discuss the 'good'.

Respect is something earned, it is when someone holds someone in high esteem because they are, one would hope, honorable and deserving of the high regard we hold them in. How could I use the word 'respect' along with french politician? Personally I could not.

[Chancer]

Completely understandable, but without reading the thread from end to end which would mean having to read the personal insults that I found so distastefull has anyone said that you should respect Mr Sarkozy or his wife?

[Stan Streason]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

[quote user="Alan Zoff"]I went to the wrong ones, too[/quote]Hmm.  Fighting off guys you don't fancy in the name of work is not much fun.  Trust me, you went to the right ones (or perhaps not - again an example of what is sauce for the gander not always being sauce for the goose.)

[/quote]

I would just like to point out that in the original example I gave the women were not fighting off men they didnt fancy they were choosing the ones they did. Fortunately [?] there were many younger, slimmer, fitter and better looking targets than me.  Its quite a sobering thought when you realise that you actually are an old man and even though your fantasies were always rather improbable they are now downright impossible.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Chancer"]Completely understandable, but without reading the thread from end to end which would mean having to read the personal insults that I found so distastefull has anyone said that you should respect Mr Sarkozy or his wife?[/quote]That was certainly my point - don't know about anybody else on here.  I have very little (if anything) good to say about the current president's political performance.  By all means, let us have a debate about his politics (possibly not on this thread?)

The thread began with Sweet 17 asking why it was considered so bad that anybody (Carla Bruni in this case) should pray for a baby and asked whether or not she was being discriminatory by asking for a boy specifically, whilst questioning whether it made any difference that she was praying to the shrine of a god she did not subscribe to or believe in.   An interesting theological question, one might have thought.  But within two posts and beyond, normally bright and intelligent people had abandoned the argument in favour of sweeping insults based upon the sexual history of the woman in question, and the height and dubious taste of her husband. 

Now, I'd rather she didn't have any more kids because I think the planet has enough of the little darlings already, and her history with her offspring does not show her to be the most caring parent on the planet.  But I have never had any maternal instincts and have never wanted to have children with my husband or anybody else, so I don't know what it feels like to be driven by such an instinct.  However,  I have met women who are and I know it is something which some women have little control over, even those who are proven lousy parents. I also know women who have had two, three or even more children of the same sex and who keep on going because they so want one of the other sort.

But we did not debate this  because the thread degenerated into a lot of mud-slinging based on things which had nothing to do with the topic which Sweets introduced since, as always happens when Carla's name is mentioned, off a number of people  went with the usual sweeping generalisations which other  forum members objected to as being irrelevant and worse.  It seems she is just a person whom some find it impossible to discuss rationally - they have judged her for something they believe to be wrong and condemned her regardless.  There's a christian attitude for you.  Maybe she is better off praying to another god.

[mint]

What also disturbed me was that they were specifying a "son" to the god.  And this in a country, India, which traditionally favour boy instead of girl children.

India, of course, is not the only country to have such an unwelcome tradition.  I believe that in China, in the days of one-child only families, countless numbers of baby girls were disposed of in one way or another.

There again, it all goes back a very long way.  Henry VIII famously divorced 2 wifes and beheaded 2 others in his attempts to have a male heir.

I cannot think of anything more sinister than designer babies, all perfect, blue-eyed or whatever and of a sex of the parents' choosing.