Newbie

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

I've never dealt with them, but how about

4 Pour Cent Immobilier

http://www.4immobilier.tm.fr/index.php?id=190

[mint]

[quote user="Pommier"]Best thing to do is buy privately and thereby not give the agents any money. It's no more difficult as a notaire will still deal with the legalities (and the taxes!). Try sites such as Leboncoin, Viva Street or Particulier à Particulier. It's the easiest way to save huge amounts of money buying a house.[/quote]

You do save money in most cases but, as you'd expect, there are always exceptions.

There are sellers who have unrealistic expectations and put the price too high.

Sometimes, agents are able to persuade the sellers, after I suppose showing them comparisons with similar properties, to get the price down.  After all, they want the sale to go through and secure their fee!

This happened with our house here.  I saw the house on the internet with "private seller", rang up and was upfront by saying what our maximum budget was.  This was before viewing as I didn't want to waste everybody's time as the asking price was way beyond us.

The owner said a definite "no".

Then, a few months down the line I saw the house again, now placed with an agent and the asking price was 40 thousand less than the previous price.

So, although we paid the agent's fees, we still managed to secure the house paying less than we would have done buying direct from the owners and we also managed to get a few thousand off the price placed with the agent.

I concede that it's usually cheaper to buy direct or to buy from a notaire but, like everything else, you need to do your homework, be prepared to wait for the right property and then be ready to move in quickly with your offer, especially if you are paying below asking price.

Edit:  what I mean to say is, looking at private and agency properties is not a mutually exclusive activity and it's best to look at everything before closing your mind to one or the other.

[Pommier]

In your case Sweet17, having already had contact with the owner, I would have gone back directly to him when he reduced his price. You could both have saved some money.

It's true that if you're buying privately you need to know how much the house is worth to you (sometimes that's more or less that the market value)

[mint]

You know what it was, Pommier, that made me decide to pay the agent's fees and be done with it?  Got a few minutes and won't be bored?  Well, let me explain....

I don't know if you remember (and there's indeed no reason for you to remember), there was a house up near Nantes that we were interested in and that was being sold privately.

We did all the research and indeed had a lot of concern about draining the property as the fosse didn't conform and we didn't think an "ordinary" fosse would have done as the land was very flat with virtually no fall anywhere near it.  Plus there were trees, even a river nearby and, with a lot of help from Pachapapa, we decided we'd go for it anyhow and were looking at one of those micro systems.

We spent money and time researching, looking around, went to the mairie to look at flood maps, stayed in a gite to get the feel of the area, blah, blah, blah eventually agreeing a price with the owner.

As we awaited the compromis, he emailed out of the blue to say he'd withdrawn the property from the market (untrue as it was still on the internet in several sites).

After having had such an unhappy and frustrating experience, I decided that I'd rather pay an agent who would make sure the compromis got signed quickly and efficiently and then get the acte authentique sorted also as quickly as practical so I'd have the house, he'd have his fees and the seller could not change his mind.

I just couldn't help but let my actions be completely coloured by that experience.

[Pommier]

Fair enough. It's everyone's own choice as to how they buy or sell.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

As we awaited the compromis, he emailed out of the blue to say he'd withdrawn the property from the market (untrue as it was still on the internet in several sites).

[/quote]There do seem to be some websites that are very slow in removing properties that are no longer for sale. It makes life difficult when looking for the right property[:(]

[mint]

Yes, you're right, Rabbie.  It's a fact that some websites don't take the property off when it's no longer available.

I was so p****d off with that seller that I probably do him an injustice by saying he was lying!  Boy, was I one mad, embittered woman[+o(]

But it all worked out fine in the end because only today, I was saying to OH, phew did we have a narrow escape with that house near Nantes![:D]

 

[Bill]

Hello one and all

Search going along and all of the comments

are most welcome , I can pick those up

easily Not quite so easy to get a comment

back each time Excuse me

Bloody agents!!!!!! :) Some are ok but

there are others

Question With a private sale u stll use

A notaire But I was told if there is no

agent ghen they add in an agents com

anyway Is this true ? May even of been

sweet17 Not sure as so much info

being passed back and forth

French builders How much per hour ditto

Plumbers & electricians Just a rule of thumb

A couple of possibilities need work and I

Need to guestimate the work. At home it's

Say 150/200 per day sterling

Happy days and thanks your comments Bill ps unable to review this before posting Hope it makes sense

[mint]

Bill, it wasn't me saying about the notaire but yes a notaire can both sell you the property and do the conveyancing for you.

Notaire's "mark-up" is typically a smaller percentage of the price than an agent's.

But, not many notaires have websites and the information they provide, prior to viewing, is even more scanty than that provided by a typical French estate agent.

We have bought both privately and also through an agent.  Now, this next remark is not general, only applies to us.  We found it both easier and much more satisfactory to buy from the agent but that's only because the private seller we bought from was both dishonest and greedy.

OTOH, the agents we bought from were very efficient, polite and helpful. 

[Pommier]

If you negotiate privately then the notaire will not charge a commission (but you'll still pay his standard fees and taxes)

If you buy via the notaire (ie with him acting as an immobilier) then he will charge a commission in addition to his fees and taxes.

[pachapapa]

SW 17 The notaires have a national immoblier website.

http://www.immobilier.notaires.fr/jahia/Jahia/cache/bypass/pid/1

On a regional scale the notaires of deux-sèvres and vienne have their own website.

They also do a magazine with general notarial info plus a fair wad of real estate.

 

[mint]

Pacha, I didn't make myself clear.  I used the Notaires de France website to calculate the fees and they were pretty much spot on.

I meant that not many notaires maintain websites advertising properties that they are selling.  Some of the ones in Brittany do and we've been to look inside their offices (Brittany and Normany) but it was so difficult to attract anyone's attention and we had such limited time when we were househunting from the UK, that we never managed to view a single Notaire listed property.

Edit:

You know, Pacha, I only ever used that site for working out fees and never noticed the immobilier section.  So, I have just gone there and pretended I was still looking for a house around here.  Filled in the criteria and got.......NO results.  So I still think that notaires are, on the whole, not really listing their properties with any great enthusiasm!

[pachapapa]

Sweet maybe not enough publicity but I think deux-chèvres is trying;

I have at hand the september copy of Mon Notaire Magazine which contains 110 annonces.

At bottom of cover with a banner mention of 700 properties for sale on the deux-chèvres notarial website.

http://www.chambre-deux-sevres.notaires.fr/

Navigating on the website gives the regional situation for the 4 départments of poitou-charente.

http://www.chambre-deux-sevres.notaires.fr/annonces-immobilieres.html

 

[Bill]

Good morning

Thanks again for various replies

Looking at a place that needs work. At home

I would happily employ workmen

Here Not so sure , maybe I should use

An architect to oversee the work. Looking Normandy la vire region

Not so heavy just plumbing wiring wood work

New floor Simple stuff just needs a watchful

Eye

What is the cost of suc a person/ architect?

Any good suggestions ( forum rules permitting)

Rgds Bill

[Pickles]

There is also another site which carries property being sold via notaires:

http://www.immonot.com/

Or am I going off on an unwanted tangent at this point?

Regards

Pickles

[Quillan]

[quote user="Bill"]Good morning Thanks again for various replies Looking at a place that needs work. At home I would happily employ workmen Here Not so sure , maybe I should use An architect to oversee the work. Looking Normandy la vire region Not so heavy just plumbing wiring wood work New floor Simple stuff just needs a watchful Eye What is the cost of suc a person/ architect? Any good suggestions ( forum rules permitting) Rgds Bill[/quote]

Price will vary but roughly 10% of the value of the work.

[Bill]

thanks everyone.. we are back in the Uk , we hope we have a property, and will no doubt lots more questions over the months to come.. thanks again.

will try and get the contract drawn up and signed now.. it was a private sale,

conditions for the contract ?

rgds

Bill

[Pommier]

The notaire will get the contract (Compromis de Vente) drawn up, and unless you've asked for any suspensive conditions such as dependant on mortgage, there will be no opt out once the 7 day cooling off period has passed.

[Bill]

I am just getting this..

the seller draws the contract, so if I need conditions in the contract, then I have to have those squared up with the seller first. OR do I ask the notaire to put them in ?

such as fosse reports or non statutory questions.

Yes ?

rgds Bill

[Pommier]

The seller doesn't draw up the contract, but if you want suspensive clauses put in to it, you need to get those OK'd with the seller before the notaire draws up the CDV.

You then both sign at which time you'll have 7 days to change your mind (but note that must be done by lettre recommandée). At the end of the 7 days you'll normally be expected to pay up to 10% deposit and then the sale proceeds until completion.

[Bill]

Hello Everyone..

 

We signed all of ten days ago and are now the proud owners of a Normandy  house that needs more work than I thought ! However it has a stunning view .   We are doing battle with the builders who want to do it their way and not my way, but  our world is a good. Thankyou all,  for the help over the past few months,   I have gleaned a huge amount of info from old postings, as well as from your  answers to other peoples more recent postings. Air to Air, boilers, electrics, insurance (Nick) , flues, furniture, legals , plumbing, Fosse.  We needed furniture in a hurry and Ikea in Caen came to the rescue, dammed good stuff if you ask me . I have read loads and learnt a  lot .

 I hope some of my in between contributions to the forum haven't been to contrary contentious or cantankerous. No harm meant or intended with what may appear as an argumentative point of view .    That's just the way I am  [8-)]  ..  

with thanks again , with many more questions to follow, I hope you will have time for me. 

 

Bill

 

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Bill"]

 I hope some of my in between contributions to the forum haven't been to contrary contentious or cantankerous. No harm meant or intended with what may appear as an argumentative point of view .    That's just the way I am  [8-)]  ..  

[/quote]You'll fit in fine then!

Well done on finding your house and all the best with it - I hope it is all you dreamed that it would be.[:)]