Laughing at the French cabinet?

[Mr Ceour de Lion II]

I didn't mention George Osbourne. Didn't know who he was til I googled him and found out.

[Pickles]

[quote user="Rabbie"][quote user="Pickles"][quote user="Rabbie"][quote user="woolybanana"]Actually, Rabbie, only three of the cabinet are wealthyish, not rich, the rest are surprisingly poor, having less wealth than an average West London householder. They may of course be lying.[/quote]Members of the British cabinet lying? Surely not! [:D][/quote]

Methinks you are at cross purposes here. WB is thinking of the French cabinet.

[/quote]I was replying to Richard CdeLs post about George Osbourne who I believe is in the British Cabinet.  We are on page 3 of this thread when things do go a little off-topic.[/quote]

The system has caught us out - we are now on Page 4 and I haven't the slightest idea who is saying what about whom any more.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="Pickles"][quote user="Rabbie"][quote user="Pickles"][quote user="Rabbie"][quote user="woolybanana"]Actually, Rabbie, only three of the cabinet are wealthyish, not rich, the rest are surprisingly poor, having less wealth than an average West London householder. They may of course be lying.[/quote]Members of the British cabinet lying? Surely not! [:D][/quote]
Methinks you are at cross purposes here. WB is thinking of the French cabinet.
[/quote]I was replying to Richard CdeLs post about George Osbourne who I believe is in the British Cabinet.  We are on page 3 of this thread when things do go a little off-topic.[/quote]
The system has caught us out - we are now on Page 4 and I haven't the slightest idea who is saying what about whom any more.
[/quote]Welcome to Forum Land.[:D] Seems I was a bit numerically challenged last night after some good food and wine.[:)]

[YCCMB]

[quote user="NormanH"]

I wonder if the same could be said for the UK? I have no idea, but I have no recollection of Cameron or Boy George masterminding any successful businesses that employ thousands, despite their inherited wealth...

[/quote]

I don't think the words "politician" and "mastermind" sit well together, except as an oxymoron. However, even if you have inherited wealth, it has to have been created somehow. People don't tend to get wealthy because they have an orchard of money trees in their garden.

[NormanH]

Those who inherit wealth do not necessarily inherit the qualities that created it, even supposing that it was created legitimately.

[YCCMB]

Of course not. I was having a long conversation with a Russian student of mine yesterday, about just how many Russians currently bemoan the demise of the USSR, where everyone had a job, where if you descended into alcoholism or depression you were looked after and sent to a "special place" to "recuperate" for up to two years whilst your job was kept open for you, where everyone had a place to live...where you could (sic) easily go on foreign holidays (to destinations chosen for you by the state, on organised tours) and only had to pay about 10% of the total cost..A proper utopia. Nobody rich, no oligarchs. What's not to like?

[Rabbie]

[quote user="NormanH"]Those who inherit wealth do not necessarily inherit the qualities that created it, even supposing that it was created legitimately.

[/quote]Isn't there an old saying "Clogs to clogs in three generations".

[Mr Ceour de Lion II]

[quote user="NormanH"]Those who inherit wealth do not necessarily inherit the qualities that created it, even supposing that it was created legitimately.

[/quote]

So the government has the right to take it away from them to give to others who haven't done anything to deserve it either then?

[Rabbie]

[quote user="Mr Ceour de Lion II"][quote user="NormanH"]Those who inherit wealth do not necessarily inherit the qualities that created it, even supposing that it was created legitimately.

[/quote]

So the government has the right to take it away from them to give to others who haven't done anything to deserve it either then?
[/quote]The short answer  is Yes.  By living in a country we agree to abide by its rules and accept we will be punished if we break them.

Any democratic government that does things contrary to the wishes of a majority of its voters runs the risk of being defeated at the next election.

[NormanH]

[quote user="Mr Ceour de Lion II"][quote user="NormanH"]Those who inherit wealth do not necessarily inherit the qualities that created it, even supposing that it was created legitimately.

[/quote]

So the government has the right to take it away from them to give to others who haven't done anything to deserve it either then?

[/quote]

Of course. If the inheritors have done nothing to deserve it why shouldn't it be shared out? That way those who may be able to do something with it can have their chance to succeed.

[nomoss]

[quote user="NormanH"][quote user="Mr Ceour de Lion II"][quote user="NormanH"]Those who inherit wealth do not necessarily inherit the qualities that created it, even supposing that it was created legitimately.

[/quote]

So the government has the right to take it away from them to give to others who haven't done anything to deserve it either then?
[/quote]

Of course. If the inheritors have done nothing to deserve it why shouldn't it be shared out? That way those who may be able to do something with it can have their chance to succeed.
[/quote]

 

At last I know why the French have had such equal shares of the country's wealth since 1799[8-)]

 

 

[YCCMB]

I'm interested to understand exactly who sits in judgment and decides who has "done something to deserve" their wealth, and which criteria are deemed worthy to make the cut. Will we need some sort of politburo for that? And is there a sliding scale of deserving acts or gestures? What absurd twaddle.

[Quillan]

If I start a business and it goes well, I employ people and pay my taxes, then what I do with my money is up to me and not anybody else's business. If I decide to give it to my children and what they spend it on is also up to me and them. Lets not forget that in France (up to 60%), UK (40% after £325,000) and I suspect many other countries there are inheritance taxes to be paid even on the value of assets so I am sorry I don't see what the problem is. Personally I wouldn't want the UK (or France come to that) to get any of my money on the basis that nobody would benefit as both governments have a habit, for the want of a better expression, of p*ssing it up the wall. Perhaps if I had a say on where my money was spent I wouldn't be so concerned.

[woolybanana]

A State is granted the privilege of taxing its citizens who undertake to pay what is demanded. But, the understanding is that the money will be spent in an appropriate manner. There is thus a contract between the State and the Citizen. Unfortunately the State is felt by many to have breached its covenant by its unwise spending in numerous areas, thus many citizens feel that they are being from their obligation, their side of the bargain.

Gordon Brown betrayed the promise, Cameron is trying desperately to remake it but other circumstances are making his task almost impossible.

And, no, Norman, inherited wealth is not bad, but a very good thing as it helps make people independent of the system. Taxing it is like a whore wanting to be paid twice for the same service.

 

[Mr Ceour de Lion II]

[quote user="NormanH"][quote user="Mr Ceour de Lion II"][quote user="NormanH"]Those who inherit wealth do not necessarily inherit the qualities that created it, even supposing that it was created legitimately.

[/quote]

So the government has the right to take it away from them to give to others who haven't done anything to deserve it either then?

[/quote]

Of course. If the inheritors have done nothing to deserve it why shouldn't it be shared out? That way those who may be able to do something with it can have their chance to succeed.

[/quote]

Um... perhaps because it's their money?

I'm with wooly and Q on this.

Also, if you earn a million euros, and are taxed at 20%, you are still putting in a hell of a lot more money than someone who is taxed the same rate on 60k a year, so the rich are already contributing a hell of a lot. I know I've simplified that, in reality the rich would be paying out a hell of a lot more than that. That's not enough?

These ridiculously high tax rates are frankly, ridiculous to be honest.

[Quillan]

One of the problems is people no longer trust even pension funds. Many like myself have invested heavily in them only to see Labour raid them three times for tax. Pension funds need to invest their money and many projects including transport, building, engineering etc are investment vehicles for them and these in turn create jobs. People are now looking at safe investments elsewhere. Better to have 1% growth on your money in a safe bank deposit account than none (or worse even) from your pension fund. It would not have been so bad if the money 'stolen' by Blair and Brown from my (and thousands of others) pension pot had been used for something of value thus creating jobs but no it was squandered on paying inflated salaries to public sector workers who have the check, I read the other day, to want a pay rise, even though they currently earn around 3 to 4k more than those with the same job in the private sector. It has also become fact that the best and most secured jobs are in the public sector there people enjoy loads of perks especially when it comes to time off for holidays and excellent salaries. These people create no wealth in the system, yes they say they pay tax but it's all the tax payers money in the first place.