Renault......oops

[Théière]

[quote user="andyh4"]So you are clearly a believer in Gaia and self regulating systems T.

Your hypothesis on water and water vapour is exactly analogous to the arguments put forward several decades ago about CO2. Plants thrive on CO2 and the warmer it is the more they grow, ergo CO2 will become self regulating as higher levels of CO2 and warmer temperatures will result in plants growing faster and consuming the CO2.*

We know that that one isn't working out too well just now. I hope you are right and I am wrong if the H2 car starts to take a hold.

* The theory may still be right but the point of equilibrium may well be much higher than we would want.[/quote]

Andy, I had not heard of Gaia theory so will do more reading up but I get the gist.  I am not sure what I believe any more which is due in part to various parts of the bought scientific community publishing conflicting information which then proliferates the confusion principle allowing financially interested parties to steer facts to suit their own ends.

 http://changingminds.org/principles/confusion.htm

From the point of hydrogen and water vapour the sky can only hold so much before it falls back down so starting at least some of the process again and the components are not toxic so without some form other source is probable the least worrying from where i stand at the moment.

A friend of mine was at a climate change conference and listened to the speaker, after being incensed at what he heard he emailed the speaker afterwards and made his points clear as to why the speakers comments were wrong. Result was he became a speaker at the next conference as they really do not have too many really solid ideas about climate. Part of the reason is a lot are Professors and  Doctors thus they know a heck of a lot about a very small amount. It takes someone with a wider vision to look at the interactions of all issues to come up with a better more rational explanation.

[andyh4]

Actually the sky has the capacity to hold an awful lot more water than it does today. There are vast tracts of hot dessert where water vapour levels are almost by definition too low to produce clouds and cause rain.

You are right though that precipitation does cause individual molecules of water to return to earth quickly (9 days). We must not however confuse this quick recycle with a position of "has no impact since it quickly corrects".

Wiki - which I sense you did not bother to consult - clearly states that water vapour (not clouds) is the strongest greenhouse gas and currently contributes between 30 and 66% to holding global temperatures where they are* - the range is because unlike other greenhouse gases - water vapour concentrations are highly variable across the planet. This is precisely because precipitation.

* They estimate that current greenhouse gases - water, CO2, methane and a number of man made pollutants currently hold Earth's temperature 15 degrees above where it would be. CO2 increase might have pushed temperatures up by 1 degree in 150 years. I think that gives some clues as to the impact of water vapour - and the risks should we start pumping large additional quantities into the air through "pollution free" Hydrogen based energy.

[Rabbie]

[quote user="AnOther"]Still waiting for Robbie [:D]

[/quote]

Who is this Robbie? Is he some relative of Godot?

To explain further on  my original comment : What shocked me was not the selfishness per se but the absence of the self-righteousness that quite often permeates post on this forum.

[halfblind]

Didn't i hear recently that the higher CO2 levels and global warming are delaying the next Ice Age ? So its good, yes ? [8-)]

[cajal]

Whatever the shape or form it is now and what it might eventually morph into in the future...........the motorcar will always win regardless of production or emission pollution.

Here

regards

cajal

[NickP]

Renault recall 15,000 cars

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35350474

[pomme]

They've done quite well with keeping the figures low in their statements on the problem. Those 15,000 are only cars not yet sold.

According to Le Figaro http://www.lefigaro.fr/societes/2016/01/19/20005-20160119ARTFIG00095-diesel-renault-va-rappeler-15000-vehicules-pour-regler-les-moteurs.php they are going to offer possible modification to 700,000 cars already sold.