Ryan Air-Abuse and Insults

[Clarkkent]

Several of the replies above refer to delays of 2 or 3 hrs leading me to believe, perhaps wrongly, that this is pretty common for the low cost airlines operating to France.  What reasons do they give for this?  Is it usually technical or something else?

 

Possibly. But consider the following:

I arrived at CDG on time in the early hours after an impeccable flight from Tokyo. Two hours to wait in that appalling greenhouse called 2F before my Flybe flight to Birmingham, the first of the day. Half an hour before boarding we were told that the flight would be 30 minutes late since "the crew have not turned up". (Presumably the car collecting them from their hotel did not arrive on time).

Eventually we were bussed to the aircraft at a remote stand. It looked beautiful, glistening in the frost. The pilot told us that there would be a further delay as the plane would have to be deiced. A trip to a remote part of the airfield and a further half hour delay.

Arrived at Birmingham to find that ground handling company had not provided a generator at remote stand (saves Flybe paying for use of airbridge). Stuck in apparently electricityless aircraft for further spell. Eventually, doors opened and we are bussed to terminal.

Wait for ages for luggage to appear. Eventually escape into arms of friends who have been waiting for two hours.

How would you describe it - cockup or incompetence? All the services for which that aircraft was rostered would run two hours late for the rest of the day. And the service was NOT a "low cost" service, it was a scheduled Air France flight.

 

[SaligoBay]

<<The cabin staff have always been friendly and polite. The staff at Nimes airport deserve a medal as far as I am concerned because of the number of English passengers that turn up 10 mins before the plane arrives, they,re still allowed on. If they,re not ariving late, they,re sitting in the bar drinking after the gate closure time..they,re still allowed on.>>

Well, guess what - they didn't let my dad on!   C'est la vie.  Maybe he should change his accent so he sounds like he's from the Home Counties somewhere, and talk VERY LOUDLY, maybe that would help?

[JohnM]

[quote]Summary of earlier posts : Ryanair and their low cost mates have forced the high cost airlines (BA, Air France) to bring down their prices Ryanair etc are credited with forcing P&O etc to bring ...[/quote]

Nicely put!

I remember watching the "Easyjet" fly on the wall programme and thinking, why do the grumblers use Easyjet if they don't like the rules?

My ex brother in law was one of those who thought it was up to him to decide how long before the flight he needed to be there and then would set off from home at a time that would get him there for that time, assuming that there would be no problems on the route. He was one of those people where intense insecurity manifested its self as "Nobody Tells Me What To Do". He was (is) outwardly an Arrogant G*t, so I now tend to think that all "NTMWTD's" (see above) are very insecure.

I build in lots of contigency time and haven't been caught out yet, despite getting very lost in Toronto (and I use the time at the airport to do important things, like breakfast!)

 

[SaligoBay]

I now tend to think that all "NTMWTD's" (see above) are very insecure.

Above where?  

and I use the time at the airport to do important things, like breakfast!)

I'd like to see you trying to breakfast while waiting in Montpellier departure lounge from 7pm till 11pm! 

[Cat]

[quote]I now tend to think that all "NTMWTD's" (see above) are very insecure. Above where? and I use the time at the airport to do important things, like breakfast!) I'd like to see you trying to b...[/quote]

NTMWTD translates to  "Nobody tells me what to do"

And as far as trying to find breakfast in the departure lounge at Montpellier, LOL, you could add Limoges and Bergerac to that.  The last time I used either, they were operating out of a TENT (well, OK, upmarket marquee).  Bergerac currently has only one toilet for two departure lounges... don't get me started.

BUT, having said all that, I'd fly Ryan Air every time. You get what you pay for, and if your expectations are not too high  (and you book at the right time) they are worth every penny/euro.

[Will]

The summary of this topic seems to be 'if it's cheap they can treat their customers how they like'.

The downside of the Ryanair culture spreading to the other airlines is that whereas once you used to get good service you now get nothing in return for a small fare reduction, if you want a decent flight you (or rather whoever is covering your expenses) have to be prepared to go club class. I couldn't even get a glass of water on SAS the other day  (and, for the euro-counters, it turned out that even if the staff were willing to serve me with one it would have cost another 2€ on top of the 275€ fare).

Speedferries seems to get away with cancellations etc because it's cheap - and because they smile when they tell you about the cancellations which P&O never did, even before the present time when the staff really do have nothing to smile about.

OK, I know I'm looking at things from a different perspective from most other forum users, because my travel is work-related, hence chargeable and/or tax deductible and I'm not looking at putting up with reduced service or miles of extra travel just to save the odd euro. So I'll stick to decent trains, or good old rip-off Brittany Ferries when I can, because I know I'll have a comfortable, well-fed journey.Mind you, I would have lamented the decline in BF's customer service policy if they hadn't totally redeemed themselves by their handling of Judie's booking for travel on strike day: re-scheduled to previous overnight crossing at no charge, and a free cabin to boot, all for something that was not really BF's fault. I can't somehow see Ryan or Stelios doing that

[Pangur]

Customer Service is a two way street - even the powerful M O'Leary cannot demand that his staff get personality transplants and become rude or deliberately unhelpful.  I find that if you treat the agent with respect, you'll get respect.  There is no point demanding that a check-in boy changes the rules for you alone, it is generally not in his power.  And a lot of people have absolutely no humility with customer service agents when things don't go their way, even when it is the customers' fault.  My sister works in a busy airport as a charter plane co-ordinator and the demands clients expect met are sometimes unbelievable.  People really do expect the world to stop spinning for them.  In addition, people treat groundstaff like dirt and think they should have all requests met after they've thrown a little tantrum.  She's started to call the airport police when customers get abusive, which happens a lot more than she'd like.

Good customer service isn't just about bending the rules.

[Will]

[quote]Customer Service is a two way street - even the powerful M O'Leary cannot demand that his staff get personality transplants and become rude or deliberately unhelpful. I find that if you treat the age...[/quote]

I couldn't agree more. The Easyjet staff response to the TV tantrums does them few favours, but the customers come out of it far worse.

In the example above we demanded nothing. A transfer to the St Malo route (which is apparently running tomorrow) was offered first, which would have been fine except it arrived in England too late so BF was asked earlier alternatives. Though we didn't actually get it on the first attempt, but that's another story altogether.

[SaligoBay]

[quote]Customer Service is a two way street - even the powerful M O'Leary cannot demand that his staff get personality transplants and become rude or deliberately unhelpful. I find that if you treat the age...[/quote]

Pangur, you seem to be making the huge assumption that every customer with a complaint is a complete and selfish idiot.

Some are, some aren't.  And some staff are also idiots, no matter how nice you are to them. 

[Davies]

[quote]Customer Service is a two way street - even the powerful M O'Leary cannot demand that his staff get personality transplants and become rude or deliberately unhelpful. I find that if you treat the age...[/quote]

I agree and no, I don't think it was suggesting that every customer is in the wrong.

  While I am sure that sometimes cusomers will have well founded complaints and I sympathise with them, unless you have worked in a service related industry, it's probably hard to appreciate that there are a host of people out there who, cannot accept the rules, try to get one over on the service provider or take great delight in trying to humiliate someone who, by and large, is not in a position to retaliate. People who have the power to retaliate often do so it's hardly surprising when agents who have discrestion chose not to extend it to customers who have been insulting to them and by the same token, often go out of their way to assist the reasonable customers.

   The above of course is a generalisation.

 I wonder though whether many of those who often have battles at the check-in also have frequent confrontations with traffic wardens?

Dave

[SaligoBay]

Strangely, I never used to argue with many people at all until I came to France, never had any need to.  You have to stand up for yourself living here, chacun pour soi and all that! 

[Poolguy]

Well it seems from the lack of further responses, that this thread has run it course and, as I posted the topic I should (by right) have the last word. I know that some of you will not like that  but let’s just say that  ‘John not Di’ has had the sum up for the ‘Yes’ team, and now I shall try to sum up for the ‘No’ Team.

 

There are many views from those who believe that M O’L is the ‘anointed one’ and deserves a place next to the almighty for breaking what was obviously a Cartel in the pricing of air travel as well as ferry travel. He has single handily redefined the nature and shape of air travel (in Europe anyway). For that we should excuse everything that follows whatever the effect it has on our daily lives. Even I guess to the extent of giving up our enalliable rights as consumers. I don’t agree. I’ll continue till my last breath to exercise my rights.

 

There are some who are able to simplify the issue to an economic terms vis – ‘you get what you pay for’. Well that is possibly true, however, economic theory alone does not allow any Company to set its own paradigm, which infringes the publics right to fair-trading. I suspect that time will be the judge (to use another worn out metaphor). RA will continue to prosper (I suspect) with more and more people wishing to jet across the expanded Europe until its first air accident. Then I suspect that the more carnivorous of the press will pounce and begin to devour what will be a nearly defenceless M O’L. Headlines like “CHEAPSCATE AIRLINE PUTS LIVES AT RISK”. Evidence will emerge of infringements of safety to cut costs and the public will ask; ‘is my life worth entrusting to this reckless Irishman’. Consequences will follow.

 

Still others who have posted that RA have decentralised airports destinations. I have no quarrel what so ever there. It’s a good thing.

 

There is a lot of postings about the ‘Rules’. I accept to a point that nearly any commercial enterprise has the right to set out their terms of trade. And I also accept that is the customer’s responsibility to read and understand those terms and chose to continue or not. However what I do not accept is RA tendency to deny even the slightest liability for anything going not according to schedule. Apparently nothing is their fault and therefore nobody is due a reschedule under any circumstances what so ever. This exists in no other industry (except the military). This is neither stated or true, it is contrary to the statuary rights of any citizen. One poster even supposed that this was like Bus/Coach travel. Well its not. If you miss the Coach in most countries that I have travelled in Europe, then they will recognise the valid ticket and let you on the next one. Even the TGV where there is seat allocation will allow reschedule within one hour after departure. RA is comparable to nothing on this point in my view. Secondly I would never expect as some rather silly posters propose that a plane wait, that is not the point. And further  I couldn’t care less if a new slot cost MO’L €1k or €10k, that’s his problem, he’s the professional scheduler, I’m just a customer. What is wrong with clearly defining the cases where a customer may be given a seat on the next flight in response to a valid ticket rather than viewing missed connections as a profit centre.

 

Now to the Nub of my post (which most posters have missed entirely). And that is of the staff, who are only Human, some people say. (Well for some I have encounted I dispute that… it can’t be true, I’m more inclined to think that M O’L has managed a Machine/Humanoid clone thing like Terminator, and I’m talking about the Ground staff only here. NO bad experiences in the air what so ever.. I‘m happy to say). I’ve spoken privately to a number of RA employees and to a man they comment that ‘Its just a job, nobody works for M O’L as a career’. ‘You just don’t know when you’ll get the chop’. And ‘We hate having to enforce the Co policy, its no fun to battle with upset customers all day long’. Well I conclude that it’s the CO policy, which is at fault and the cause of this grief and upset. Personally, I don’t get on a plane with the preconceived notion that I want to have a barny with a girl or bloke behind the counter. NO I would much rather have no trouble, no sweaty moments and get to where I want to go and get on with it. That’s not moaning that’s legitimate expectation.

 

SO for those of you who have yet to fall foul of RA policy or are willing to accept anything they say as ‘the way it is’, I say good luck and I wish you good travelling. For those of you who have fallen foul of MO’L’s excessive regime then I can only join with you to encourage other companies to compete. WE can draw strength from Marketing theory which states that ‘Price is largely irrelevant, its value which will win customers.’ RA has disproven this axiom for the moment but over time, I think that the laws of marketing will uphold the truth and RA will witness a reversal of their present fortune from their own hand. I guess as they have now surpassed the dangerous medium size and are into mega airline status then they will have the strength to ‘play’ with the game board and will survive. I wonder if he will be tempted into BA style dirty tricks to ward off a new generation of competitors. We watch with interest.

 

[opas]

Hendo you have probably written a very interesting post, but your font size is so small that I didn`t attempt to do a Mr Magoo.

Mrs O

[Poolguy]

OOOPPS

I've proably done somthing wrong that made it appear too small on other computers even though on mine ite tickketty boo.

SO I'll repost, Perhaps some kind hearted Forum Administrator could delete to one with small text just to avoid unecessary duplication.

Andrew