Need to apply for CPAM, but not entitled to E106

[Veloiste]

My wife and I are directors of a UK based and registered company, from which we draw a salary. In order to get health treatment in France we know we need a carte vitale, but have twice been asked for an E106, which we are not entitled to - according to Inland Revenue. Thus, we want to pay CPAM contrubutions, but so far have drawn a blank -even after talking to a most helpful CPAM english speaking employee who said that we did not have to pay but that we needed the E106! Next stop - the Mairie, but has anyone else been in the same situation?

[Benjamin]

You need to ask Newcastle for a letter, in French, saying that you are not entitled to an E106 and present this to your local CPAM.

It's a standard letter so there should be no problem in obtaining it.

[Unknown]

I couldn't have a E106 either and Newcastle sent me a letter in French and English.  I gave it with all the relevant paperwork and got my carte vital.

[Ron Avery]

You are entitled to an E 106 if you live in France but do not work in France, you need to talk again to Newcastle.There is a great deal of difference in the systems applicable if you retire to live in France and not work and people who live in France but work in the UK.

As your salary wuill be derived from the UK you cannot be seen as being retired and this may be confusing your CPAM,  you would I believe be seen as working in the UK although you need to be careful that the French do not decide that you and your company are in France ( home is where your bum is) and tax you here as well. 

If Will is still posting he may be able to guide you as to your entitlement to an E 106 and the tax issues about where you live V where you work.

[cooperlola]

Yes, you will also need the figure from your French tax return for the CPAM to be able to calculate your payments.  Take your French tax statement (as you operate from here, you should be paying your taxes here even though it's a UK company - Will, that's right isn't it?) plus the letter discribed above to your CPAM and they'll sort you out.

[marina]

I think Ron is right, I always understood that if you draw a salary when resident in France you have to pay employee or self-employed cotisations, and if your salary comes from a non-French company that they cannot collect the employer cotisations from, then they make you pay them too. If you actually work for the company and do the work in England, commuting to France, it would be different, but than you would pay UK NI and not need to register with CPAM. I think you need to talk to an accountant.

[cooperlola]

It certainly sounds like an accountant is needed to me too.  Watch out because the French tax authorities do seem to be clamping down on this so it's better to get sorted now and by an expert.  Our help (if such it is!) is mostly based on our own experiences and heresay which may not match your individual situation.  Ron and Marina are both talking good sense, IMHO.

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

We too had to pay our way into the CPAM.  I was lucky enough when I phoned that the found someone all the way in Orleans who knew all about it.  They transferred the call to this woman who spoke good English, and she popped the necessary form in the mail straight away.

Most things I like to do in person, but if it is complicated enough that I need to speak English then I usually pick up the telephone and let them scale the country for someone who knows what I need and can speak English.  I'm sure you'll all think me a 'cheat', but CPAM is usually one of the first things you need to do when you come to france and your french is not that good.

Best of luck!  After the first firm is put in, the rest is a breeze!

[steve tachauer]

Ron, both my wife and I are retired in living up here in the cold Pas de Calais. My wife has an E106 but I wasn't entitled to one as I retired more than 5 years ago. Do I still need the letter or is my wifes' E106 enough? We also have a 6 year old son (life in the old dog yet) and have a scholars certificate  from his school. We were going to the local CPAM office tomorrow but if I need a letter that's going to have to be postponed.  Can you nudge me in the right direction?

 

Thanks, as always, PP.

[Ron Avery]

Steve

Short answer is without more information such as your ages and why you are going to CPAM, I cannot tell you what you can or cannot do.

If your wife has an E 106, on what basis was it issued, is she covered by the CMU, if not why not?

If it is the "normal" E 106 up to 2 years cover then you could be a named dependent on that, as would be your child, but you will have to pay into the French Health care system when the E 106 expires, and at that time you must get a letter from Newcastle to say that you are no longer eligible to cover under that form.  You will then be means tested for entry into the French Health care stystem, so collect all your French tax returns and/or P60's together.

If you have reached UK retirement age and receive a UK OA pension, you are entitled to apply for cover from the UK under an E 121, which would cover you and your family.

[steve tachauer]

Thanks, Ron. My wife is 37 (she retired from the police, with a pension, on the grounds of ill-health) and I am 54 with a police pension. As far as I am aware, my wifes' is a normal E106 which expires on the 5th of Jan. 2008. I think we both want to do the 'right' thing and pay into the French system hence CPAM - then again, I've no idea what CMU is (just going back into the forum to look it up). I've phoned Newcastle and they are sending the necessary letter and I think I have everything else - birth certificates, marriage certificate and my latest P60. Again, thanks for your help,

 

PP.

[Ron Avery]

Hi Steve

The problem looks like because you are both getting a pension that the UK nor the French will accept you as a dependent and so you have not been put as a dependent on your wife's E 106.   So you will have to enter the French Health system (which is known as the CMU) and start paying for it based on your last year's income.

Your wife will not have to pay for now, she will be covered by her E 106 which she will have to take or have already taken to CPAM to get her CMU Attestation and a carte vitale. which you will also get when you join, but remember you are covered from the date of application, not receipt of your attestation, so keep any receipts or brown forms in the interim.

When your wife's E 106 expires she will have to join the CMU as well (unless she is receipt of invalidity benefit, in which case she should be on a E 121 form now).  Assuming that not to be the case she will have to get a letter from Newcastle in December 2007 stating that she will no longer covered by an E 106 but by then you might have a French tax return to show CPAM .  If you are going to CPAM to sort out out your  health cover, you will also need to take a bank RIB (details of your account) this enables repayments to be made straight to your bank by CPAM.  If you have not yet declared tax in France for 2006, you will be asked to sign an attestation of your income for 2006.

Good to see that you want to do it right, I was talking to a bloke yestyerday who is paying tax for the first time in France this year, despite having lived here for 5 years although he has been paying tax in the UK during that time, but guess what, he is 65 soon and entitled to an E 121 to get his health care free so he needs to get legal to get this cover, up to now he has been winging it by paying for medicines and doctors as needed, makes you wonder how many there are like that here.[Www]

[Sunday Driver]

Steve

It's not clear from your posts as to exactly where you both are in the process of moving to France and getting registered for your healthcare.

When did you arrive in France to take up permanent residency here?

Your wife has an E106 - when did she receive it?  (The expiry date is a little unusual given that they are typically valid for two years based on past NI contributions - your wife being ex-job suggests that her contributions will have been up to date - when did she retire?).

Is your son included on the E106 as a dependent?

Has your wife already registered with her local CPAM?

If so, has the CPAM declined to include you on her cover - or haven't you asked them?

Just some key questions that would help in offering you accurate advice on the way forward.

 

 

 

[steve tachauer]

SD, we arrived in France on the 16th of March and have registered at the Mairie. You sound as though you may have earned your living the same way my wife and I did so you'll understand when I tell you that she was sick for well over a year before they retired her - hence, no pay, no NIC, short date on the E106. She officially retired in Nov. 2005. Our son isn't include on her E106 and I'll make sure he's shown as a dependent on my CV and my wifes' when she gets hers next year. Neither of us has registerd yet as we are awaiting my most recent P60 (I'm told its' going in the post next week) so, no, they haven't declined as I haven't had the chance to ask them. I think, from what advice I've received so far that, P60 excepted, I've got everything we need (birth certs: marriage cert: scholars cert. for our 6 year old, RIB and a utility bill or three) but I'm going to take passports too-just in case! As I said on my earlier post, we want to do everything right, not least because my dad was born less than an hour from where we are living and we are here for good. Just a shame he never spoke any French to me-life would have been easier, but I'm getting there. Bless him, he moved to England when he was 6 - the same age as our lad is now so I feel that I've completed the circle.

 

Thanks again for your help,

PP 

[Sunday Driver]

Thanks for that, Steve - I was a bit puzzled....

Sounds like you've got matters well in hand.  The only thing I would say is that your son should have been included on your wife's E106 as a dependent, and I suspect that if you'd pushed them, they would have also included you.  The E106 only has a few months to run now, so it's probably not worth raising the point with them at this late stage.

 

 

[steve tachauer]

Thanks, SD, and I think you're right about the E106/dependents. Perhaps I should have researched it a bit sooner.

PP.