Birmingham - Bordeaux BMI Baby

[BJSLIV]

Typically there are four trains per day direct from Lille to Bordeaux something like

Lille                  Bordeaux                     Bordeaux         Lille

6:00                  11.56                           11:00               16:15

7:59                  13:04                           14:22               20:00

12:47                 18:00                           16:43               22:22

14:47                  20:00                           18:31               00:07

 

If anything its slower than changing in Paris. The timings also make it pretty difficult to do  much more than Home Counties to Bordeaux or return in one day.

[sid]

Hey Suze, I think you DO detect a hint of desperation. [:(]

So what are you saying? "I'm alright, Jack"? 

I think the OP was rather bemoaning the loss of a good link with the North of England, and I too will miss it this winter. There is obviously some incomprehension of the withdrawal of the services when there does seem to be a demand for seats. 

There can be many reasons why people need or wish to travel to UK, and furthermore circumstances may change, so that for example the declining health of an eldery relative, birth of a grandchild etc etc. mean that visits are now required. Those who are not "Billy-no-mates" may also wish to simply visit friends! In view of your comment I hope that you don't find yourself in a similar position.

'Desperate' Sid  [blink]

 (who will probably drive after October)

 

[Suze01]

[quote user="sid"]

So what are you saying? "I'm alright, Jack"? [/quote]

Not at all, but it is a fact that when low-cost routes open, house sales in that area increase.  You cannot rely on the fact that they will always run those routes.

[quote user="sid"]

Those who are not "Billy-no-mates" may also wish to simply visit friends!

[/quote]

So what are you saying? [;-)]. Actually I went over for one of my good friend's 50th birthday in May flying lowcost [;-)]

I understand what you are saying though but as I said before: You cannot rely on the fact that lowcost carriers will always run these routes to small regional airports, and people should not get upset when timetables are changed.

[shropshirelass]

You cannot rely on the fact that lowcost carriers will always run these routes to small regional airports, and people should not get upset when timetables are changed.

 

Bordeaux is the 4th largest city in France - its airport is hardly "a small regional airport"!!!

[shropshirelass]

There can be many reasons why people need or wish to travel to UK, and furthermore circumstances may change, so that for example the declining health of an eldery relative, birth of a grandchild etc etc. mean that visits are now required

Well said Sid - we know of two people who have had to travel back to the UK because of ill health in their UK based family.  They both will have long journeys to the north of England after the end of October and sometimes time is of the essence.  They currently use the Bordeaux - Manchester(International) and Bordeaux - Birmingham (International) routes but those are two of the many that have disappeared.

[Suze01]

Yes, I do hear what you say.  But you chose to move away from your family and at some point in a family's lifetime there are going to be circumstances where they need to be together & that is to be anticipated. If carriers want to change routes at their will for whatever commercial reasons then that's their discretion - it's their business.  Whether the lowcost services use regional or international airports they are still glorified bus services with wings.

[Ian]

My two cents....

I have flown jet2.com a couple of times in and out of Manchester and they were great (I live near Toulouse).  My Mum and Dad used them to come to visit - they live in Shropshire and found the drive from Shropshire to Manc airport less stressful (albeit slightly longer) than when they have flown from Brum.

I also used jet2.com when I flew to Leeds from Toulouse and once again it was a good service.  Carcassonne to East Midlands is also an option for many SW France Midlanders (flew on that today) with Ryanair. (or Carcssonne - Liverpool)

I find that Toulouse runs a pretty good schedule for most major European business destinations: Frankfurt, Brussels, Munich, Amsterdam, Dusseldorf, Prague, Geneva, Rome, Milan, Lisbon, Dublin, London, Bristol, Madrid , Paris, Manchester, Belfast, Leeds, Hamburg etc

And also plenty of "holiday" destinations and internal flights within France.  I agree however that Birmingham UK will be a sad omission once Flybe pull the route. A couple of transatlantic routes would be good too.

[shropshirelass]

Hi Ian

Thanks for the information.  We have flown from Manchester a few times with BMI and each time has been a pleasant experience.  I think that was before Jet2 were flying from there or we would have tried them.  Sadly they are one of the other ones who are not flying this winter down to the South West.  Hopefully they will resume flights from there and Leeds next year and we will give them a try.

[:D]

Ps - there was an article on Midlands Today this evening saying that protestors have managed to get the Birmingham - Lyon route reinstated.  It was cancelled when FlyBe took over BA Connect and now Air France has stepped into the breech to provide flights.   Perhaps they might go to Bordeaux - hmmm wishful thinking

[Stefan]

Can I just comment, as one of the industry "insiders" here, on this whole topic of route closures, and I'm sorry if I seem to be trying to teach people to suck eggs but I know, from personal; experience, how annoying a route closure can be.

 The airlines are not charities, they are no longer ordered by governments(well UK anyway) to maintain particular routes. They purely want to make as much money as possible.  If "your" route fails to produce a consistent profit it will be axed and the aircraft and crews will be redeployed onto a more profitable route. The Lo-Cos have been very innovative in opening up new routes but it's risky assuming they will stay - they will try a route for a while and see if they can generate enough demand on the route to make it pay (why do you think many of the Lo-Cos inflight magazines are full of adverts for foreign properties? ).If it doesn't produce a profit sharpish it will be cut.  A route that makes sense in the Summer may be completely unviable in Winter, in which case the airlines will try to shift their aircraft onto a better (e.g.skiiing or Winter Sun) route.

  I see a lot of comments here about routes being well supported. Yep, the aircraft may well be full every weekend you fly but the problem is that whilst there may be lots of backsides on seats that is not an indicator that the route is making a profit - that depends on the ticket prices ( an aircraft carrying 150 passengers each paying the airline 5 pounds is unlikely to be making a profit) and route costs - e.g. refuelling, ground handling, airport charges. If an operator can entice more people, willing to pay more, onto a cheaper route, woosh, he's gone.  Complain if you like, but the operator would be happier if you sent him a blank cheque!

In a nutshell, you can't assume a route will operate for ever, so have a plan B.

 

 

 

 

       

[shropshirelass]

Never travelled on a weekend - always midweek and all the flights 3/4 to full.  Never paid less than  £15 each way and usually the planes are full of business travellers who I'm sure haven't booked their flights months in advance at low prices.  One thing I have learnt is not to be loyal to a particular airline (in this case BMI Baby)and sadly wish I hadn't recommended friends to fly with them.  [:@]

[Stefan]

Hi shropshire lass, sorry for hijacking your thread...

I don't think you should be loyal to a particular airline..heavens I work for an airline but when I'm travelling off duty if the competing Lo-Co on my commuting route has a better timed and/or cheaper flight than "my" outfit I take the Lo-Co.

My point was I think there are starting to be lots of comments on the Forum  about why such and such an airline has stopped operating to/from a particular airport or a particular route and how unjust/unfair it was - I was trying to explain why the airlines behave the way they do (personally I think the days of low fairs are limited but that's just a guess).

Looking at your post, being brutal 15 won't cover the cost of carrying you ( and how much of the 15 pound did the airline see and how much was tax?)....the airline wants the flight absolutely full of business passengers, not three quarters or even 95% full, and it wants them all paying top wack. So if the yield managent gurus can spot such a route, they redeploy the aircraft.  As an example Air France/Flybe couldn't make LHR-TLS work, now I know that Air France's economics are not the best but if they can't make a business case between two major city pairs is it any wonder that places like Rodez are vulnerable to losing their flights in Winter?

 

Ultimately people should not expect airlines to be loyal to a route and not be suprised if an airline stops serving their local airport - hence the need for plan B, C etc.

 

Rgds

Stefan (BTW Shropshire lad, Ludlow..)

       

 

[shropshirelass]

I too am sure that the days of cheap fares are coming to an end and in fact I think that it won't be too long before most of the low cost carriers disappear either.  It's an enormous bubble waiting to burst.  Totally understand all the economics just cheesed off really.

By the way - £15 was the lowest ever and that was ex tax - perhaps in these days of all the costs quoted (ha ha) I should have stated the total cost.  That would be the total excluding the cost of each bag, early boarding, etc etc....  And as to loyalty - the loyalty was always dependent on cost but good for a tie breaker situation

Ludlow - hmmmm - I know it well! [:)]

[ChezTinns]

I hear what you are saying Stefan, but Flybe pulling the Birmingham to Toulouse flight during the winter hardly makes sense.  We have used this route winter and summer for a few years.  We have NEVER paid less than £120 plus taxes, it has always been at least 3/4 full even during the week.  The winter months have always been full of passengers going ski-ing, with Toulouse being very accessible to the Pyrenees.

Now living in the Midlands and travelling to the Gers during the winter we have the choice of direct flights going from Bristol (only going three times a week), Gatwick (both Toulouse) or Stanstead to Pau. Carcassonne isn't an option as it is too far to travel once in France.  I thought Toulouse was France's 4th largest city (after Paris, Marseille and Lyon) - even so as mentioned earlier, if it is the 4th or 10th largest city its proximity to winter ski-ing should have made it viable to keep going throughout the winter.  Funny how it co-incides with the frist winter of the BA Connect merger!

Just had to bite the bullet and book a flight from Stanstead to Pau - it was ridiculously cheap, but that's not the point, who the heck wants to drive from Staffordshire to blummin Stanstead for a 10am flight?

Not happy!

[Ian]

Where are the French low-cost airlines???? The Brits (Scots and English at least), Germans, Irish, Italians, Swedes, Spanish, Poles, Belgians, , Finns, Austrians, Slovakians, Icelanders, Latvians, Greeks, Norwegians, Danes, Dutch, Turks and the Czechs have low-cost carriers. (Portuguese?)

Do Air France still have anti-competition policies (surely this contravenes some sort of EU law?) that restrict new lo-co starters? - I haven't taken any internal flights with a lo-co except Easyjet TLS to Orly.

Can someone explain this seemingly anachronistic situation? (I seem to recall Air Liberte - which I guess was a French lo-co - is it dead, presumed murdered by Air France? Or have I got that wrong?)

[Clair]

This airline specialises in regional internal flights: http://www.airlinair.com/

I was in Aurillac yesterday and saw they advertise a flight Aurillac-Paris (Orly sud) for €59.

They fly to Amsterdam and Eindhoven. I don't know if they qualify as low-cost though...

[ChezTinns]

I'm not bothered about Low Cost flights. I just want to be able to fly DIRECT from the Midlands (or Manchester) to Toulouse all year round, and now I can't! And I'm cross!

[Ian]

Ah, yes I have seen these guys (linair) fly in to Castres - not sure how independent they are from Air France, as all (the couple I have seen) their planes carry Air France logos. But €59 euros counts as low cost IMHO!  Thankyou

PS Sorry if I have gone off-topic.  I guess I should have started a new thread.  My apologies

[Stefan]

ChezTinns

TLS is a funny place and I'm not sure if the airlines know if it's a holiday or business destination. At first glance you've got stacks of business traffic but the big employer, Airbus, tend to move their own people (Privatair) and any business traveller with any sense these days avoids the connecting via the UK because of all the Security hassle, especially the one bag rule. I gather KLM have picked up a lot of traffic going AMS- USA as a result of this.

As for the holiday stuff, Summer is fine so the airline's would be mad to dump the place - I just scraped onto a LGW-TLS by the skin of my teeth this PM so I know how busy it is.  As to the other seasons I understand  the big sking operators weren't too impressed by the inability of the French to maintain access to Andorra a couple of years back and shifted their ski flights to the Spanish side of the mountains, e.g. Reus....which might explain the thining out of flights this winter.

    Personally I've banged one of my airline manager's desk over our TLS flight ( more frequency, better timingsetc, etc)  and got nowhere...so I'm cross as well....

[Ian]

[quote user="Stefan"]

TLS is a funny place and I'm not sure if the airlines know if it's a holiday or business destination.

[/quote]

It seems to me that TLS is mainly a business airport - just based on the number of single people of "working age" one sees travelling in and out.  The Air France terminal in particular is vastly populated by business people.  "Business(wo)men" don't all fly business class these days (I wish) and the lo-cos transport plenty of us workers from TLS too.

Compare the demographic one sees at Carcassonne - retired couples, nearly retired couples, families, hardly any French people - with TLS. It is quite a marked contrast.

[Stefan]

Fair comment, yes the AF end is v. full of "suits" ( not meaning to be derogatory, by the way), which always made me wonder how the heck AF made such a mess of the LHR-TLS route.  

I reckon the demographics of the BA/Easyjet/Lo-CO end of the Terminal at TLS is bit different.  BA/EZE seems to be mostly holiday makers in the Summer, and thins out to lighter loads of mainly business pax in the Winter...

 

  

[Judith]

[quote user="shropshirelass"]

I was told that you could change at Lille rather than Paris but it would appear that the TGV goes from Paris down to Bordeaux rather than from Lille - or at least that's what it says on the web site.  If it were via Lille it would be so much more convenient I agree.

[/quote]

This is rubbish - I have gone to Libourne (on the Bordeaux route) more than once, though fewer trains stop at Libourne, several more go onwards to Bordeaux and in May the 12.16 one from Lille went on from Bordeaux to Toulouse.  Use the SNCF site, NOT the TGV site, as they do not always link with all the possible connections, and will always give connections via Paris unless you state Lille.  I'd never change in Paris, however fast the train, had to get to somewhere in Paris (not a connection just a friends) from Gare du Nord and the most unfriendly luggage system barriers you could ever imagine exist on the metro.  Whereas at Lille it is lifts or esclators, and the same station.  I've just come back that way, so I speak the truth!!!

[BJSLIV]

as I said earlier in this thread

Typically there are four trains per day direct from Lille to Bordeaux something like

Lille                  Bordeaux                     Bordeaux         Lille

6:00                  11.56                           11:00               16:15

7:59                  13:04                           14:22               20:00

12:47                 18:00                           16:43               22:22

14:47                  20:00                           18:31               00:07

If anything its slower than changing in Paris. The timings also make it pretty difficult to do  much more than Home Counties to Bordeaux or return in one day.

[jd]

Thank you for all the valuable info re travelling to Bdx in this winter. Have just come back from Bdx to Bristol via Easy Jet and have been shown their new routes. They are nearly all to eastern Europe! It looks as if Ryanair have the same idea too looking at their sale offers in the paper last weekend. How does one convey a need to these airlines so they at least restore the summer schedule back to normal. I've had no response from Easyjet by email.

Has anyone travelled from Bergerac to Bdx by trian having flown into Bergerac airport? Likewise from Toulose to Bdx? Have even thought of flying to Paris from Exeter and then taking the TGV to Bdx.  J.D.