Property Inheritance

[French Frank]

We are in the process of buying a property in Vienne but we have one slight 'niggle'.  As a married couple with no children, we have been told that, when one of us dies, the property automatically goes to the other.  BUT when that person dies, the property goes to the next in their blood line (ie brother etc).

We would like our property split between both families but have been told that it is not possible (other than to hope that goodwill and honesty would prevail and our Will would be adhered to by the relevant relation).

I can't imagine we are the first people to have faced this dilemma and wondered if anyone could help?  (I had heard something about forming a limited company but our estate agent said that wasn't such a good option, however couldn't advise anything else).

 

 

[Nick Trollope]

Speak to the Notaire, who will write the acte de vente accordingly. Be awre though, that the scenario you describe is set in pretty hard concrete and only a few variations are possible.

 

[P-D de Rouffignac]

What your are being told seems to describe the situation when you die (both of you) without having made a will. I am single with no dependants, so I have no preferred "hereditaries" to use the French term (ie. direct descendants/children, or ascendants/living parents). If I did not make a will and in the absence of these two categories, my estate would go 'sideways' to any surviving brothers or sisters, and thereon to their dependants. As I have made a will, I have left everything to a friend totally outside the family, as I am entitled to do this under French law and advices by my notaire. Your own situation seems similar, so can I suggest you double check. You can write a simple handwritten will ('olographe') in French for less than 100 euros (for it to be registered and retained by the notaire) but a notaire will help you with the form of words; or a typewitten, witnessed version for around 300 euros. In any event do ask a notaire to at least clarify the situation and put your minds at rest. Hope this helps.

P-D de Rouffignac

 

[cooperlola]

We are in the same position and P-D de R's experience reflects ours.  However, there are certain people (parents, for example) who get a cut whether you like it or not, so it really is best to check this out with your notaire.  As Pierre says, it's pretty cheap and ours, certainly, gave us good advice and a form of words.

[Loiseau]

[quote user="P-D de Rouffignac"]

...As I have made a will, I have left everything to a friend totally outside the family, as I am entitled to do this under French law and advices by my notaire. ...[/quote]

But P-D R, does that not mean that the person inheriting will have to pay a large amount of tax?  60 per cent springs to mind as a figure I have heard.  So it could be a bit of a "cadeau empoisonné".  

I looked into this, when I wanted my property to be shared out equally between my daughter and my stepchildren after my death, and the notaire severely advised me against this option as the stepchildren (who are too old to be adopted. I think) would have this huge amount to pay on their share.  The same applies to anyone else who is not a blood relation I understand.

Of course to inherit 40 per cent of the value of someone's estate is better than nothing, but if it is the house that you hope they will keep, the beneficiary would have to find a lot of money to pay off the tax if they didn't want to sell the property.

Angela

[P-D de Rouffignac]

Yes, I agree there is tax to pay especially on inheritances outside the family, but it was a lesser evil than dying intestate and the whole lot going to the State if I outlived my brother(s), and in any event I wanted to nominate my own inheritor. In some situations such as this, one could purchase a property using a limited company so that on the death of one of the directors/owners, no sale takes place, the company continues to own a property in its name. There may be tax implications but it is a possible solution - but professional advice advisable.

P-D de Rouffignac

 

[cooperlola]

Yup, non relatives are pretty stuffed re the tax thing.  But I agree with Pierre.

 If blood relatives are involved though, maybe better to leave your property to those who would pay less tax under French law and trust them to do the right thing and divide the property as you wish, post inheritance.  You won't be around to be scandalised if they're not as honest as you hoped! As Pierrre says, take professional advice.

[Deborah]

Hi, I am in the same position as "Frank".  As, unfortunately, both of us have complications regarding our relatives that would inherit once both of us die, I talked to our notaire about it.  He said that we can draw up French wills leaving our French property etc to a designated person.  This person is a trusted friend who will inherit everything & then share out the estate according to our wishes which we have written in an English-type will, but I know this is not worth the paper it is written on, it is just for his benefit really.  Although he will have to pay 60% tax, it is worth it to know that our house will be going to the people that we have chosen.  The notaire has said that these French wills can be contested by our relatives, but I am hoping that they are too dozy to realise that they have that option!  Hope this helps

[nectarine]

Oh the joys and complications of greedy relatives and grasping stepchildren.  We bought our property 'en tontine' which, we have been told, will probably now be nil-tax between us as we are married.   At least that is the notaire's interpretation of the new inheritance laws.  We haven't made French wills yet but our English wills deal specifically with our English property and so we shall make French ones for the French side of things.

However, I think if you make wills leaving everything to the survivor (your partner) then that is fairly straightforward.  And when the survivor dies, well who cares.  Neither of you will be around to be upset about the squabbles that will take place.  And if your relatives only end up with, say, 25% of something - well that's 25% of something that they wouldn't otherwise have had so you don't complain about free goods!

Apologies if I sound naive or flippant about this but the whole idea of contesting wills and arguing over wills is distasteful to me.  Perhaps if we leave it all to the cats' home instead or some cute charity that nobody would dare dream of contesting!!!!

[mint]

Nectarine

I agree with you wholeheartedly.  We'll be pushing up the daisies and what will happen will happen and we will be well out of it.

When we lived in the UK, we were next to a lovely old lady (96 years old when we left this year) who had nobody except some so-called family.

Well, when she came out of hospital, we were the only people going in to check up on her before she went to bed and the only people on the phone first thing in the morning.  In between, she had nurses, carers, doctors, home helps.  It used to make me cross to think that her so-called family would inherit everything when none of them did anything very much and, if she needed a light bulb changing, it was my husband who'd go get the bulb and did the necessary for her.

Family, sometimes, you don't really know whether you are better or worse off without them!

[cooperlola]

Here, here Nectarine and Sweet 17.  I have far better things to concern myself with than arguments which may occur after I've gone, and who gets how much of what.  I've made my wishes known, registered my will and my o/h's, made sure we'll be OK.  The rest is up to them.  Life is just too bloomin' short.

[French Frank]

Nectarine, although I do agree with you, it is for the very same reasons as Sweet 17 mentions, that I would like some say in the matter.

Some family members deserve more and I would rather they had it than the ones I only see at weddings and funerals!

[thetwoofus]

hiya

we are (wife and I) buying very soon ,signing on monday week and this inheritance thing is a bit of a worry to us to say the least, we are second time marriages both have two kids each (grown up one's) we want to leave the property to who ever lives the longest to do as they wish i,e sell and return to uk or stay in france . I read that the tontine is changing to enable the surviver to inherit the property without the tax problems ,anyone know if this is so? if that is the case then change of  marital regime (C/U)  would not be the best option ,any idea's ? Also we want to start a business very soon,  just the two of  us no employees, running a carp fishery.

[AnOther]

Is it not the essence of Sakozy's reforms that inheritances between spouses are free of tax as is the case in UK ?

With complicated families the survivor selling up and returning to UK seems to be the only sure way of ensuring that what's left goes where you want it to.

I've read here somewhere of a scheme whereby you sell your property to a third party but continue to live in it until death. I guess if you did that you could distribute your liquid assets as you wished before your death.

Ditto again Coops BTW...[;-)]