If an artisan walks away from a job...............

[mint]

Have had a few problems from the man who installed our poêle and our Godin ovens. To briefly put you in the picture, this was what happened.

The man was recommended to us by the seller of our Godin woodburner and Godin ovens, hob, hood, etc.  We accepted his devis and the work has dragged on since June when we placed our order.  Some of it was because of the manufacturer not being able to fill the order and some of it was the usual thing of a contractor starting a job, going off to do other jobs and popping back now and again to do yours.

Back in August, when the work was about 85% completed (not everything to as good a standard as we had hoped), the man asked for the rest of the money and also an additional 600 odd euros.  Val and Clair gave me some advice on this forum about asking the man to justify his request.  

Upshot was, we paid 90% of what we owed and waited and waited and waited for him to come back and finish the job.  The weeks have now turned into months; we have water coming in through the roof from where he has put in vent pipes and not properly secured the roof tiles around them, there are holes left in the wall where electrical cabling is threaded, there are holes in our floor boards upstairs from where he has drilled in the wrong place through not measuring up properly, the oven units themselves are not horizontal and lots of little things too numerous and boring to mention here.

Have been back to the shop to ask them to contact the installer and I myself have tried ringing many times.  No response so far.

By now, I just want shot of him and engage another man to finish off the works and put right all the things that can be remedied (though we'll have to live with the stuff that can't be put right).

So, my question is: where do I stand legally in all this?  Do I have to write a letter stating formally that I consider him not to have fulfilled his contract and that I am forthwith getting someone else to do the job.  Or, can I just forget about him and get someone else in straightaway!

This is getting ridiculous as it's dragged on for half a year and we still have a bedroom in shambles where the man has cut through walls and not reinstated them and neither my oven nor hob work as they should.

Please any legal eagles out there or anyone who has dealt with a similar problem successfully, advise me.    

[mint]

Please excuse me for bumping this up.  I felt I posted rather late last night and I am afraid that this might have been missed.

Need to know what I am required or can do before taking any action.  I feel I have the moral high ground in this but that has never been a sound place to be when push comes to shove! 

I won't go as far as to say this matter is causing me unhappiness but it is definitely getting to be rather more than a mere niggle.

Please forum friends and mates, come to my help!

[oakbri]

Sweet 17

A similar thing happened to a friend of mine this year. He employed an "artisan" (and I use that word in the loosest possible terms) to lay some crazy paving and a sturdy security fence around his property.

He paid something like 50% up front. The "artisan" showed up and laid about half the tiles. He then returned asking for more money to buy the fence. My friend was out but he showed my friends wife a receipt for the fence. He managed to extract a further 1600 euros from her for the fence, plus another 800 euros to be able to continue the paving. When my friend got home he looked at the receipt for the fence and found it to be no more than a devis, and no more paving had been laid.

Needless to say the "artisan" never returned. The tiles he laid sank in the middle and collected rainwater.

My friend eventually employed a British guy working on the black. The job was done in a couple of days, for far less than the artisan quoted and to the standard my friend required. All the tiles that had been laid had to be ripped up .

Whilst I am not condoning using non registered workers it goes to show that the word artisan can sometimes mean nothing. I don't know how you chase these people as like in your experience the phone number he was given no longer got answered.

I guess the answer is to pay as little up front as the law allows and pay not a penny more until the job is done to your satisfaction.

Anytime I ever had work done in the UK it was always cash on completion, I think as a customer it gives you more protection. Obviously as a builder it leaves you open to non payment problems.

[mint]

oakbri

We have had a little development.  Because the artisan was recommended by the shop from which we bought our appliances, the shop's proprietor obviously had a word on our behalf.

Any road (as they say), he came last Monday.  My OH was able to show him all the things that were wrong and, to our surprise, he agreed to put things right.  That was the good bit.  The bad news is, he said he would order the materials and come back after January!

To be honest, all I wanted was to be shot of him and get someone in to finish the job but my OH, being of a more forgiving nature, agreed to wait (yet again).  The thing is, there's no guarantee that the job will be done right and we would have hung about for something like 9 months for a job that should take no more than a couple of days (3 at most).

Our French neighbour called this evening and said that, as a Frenchman, he would have had the same treatment, that so-called artisans aren't what they used to be, etc, etc.  No consolation for us but we had a drink or two on the unreliability of artisans and so the saga continues.

What I want to say is, "Don't watch this space" because I guess that not much is going to happen!

[Catalpa]

Sweet17 -

Now that you've a verbal agreement for when the artisan will return (ideally your husband will have got a date for the work to recommence but maybe they just agreed "after January") write to the artisan and detail the work that he has agreed to do and give a date by which you expect it to be finished - for eg, end January. Or earlier if he gave you reason to believe that.

State:

- the date the devis was signed

- the date he started, how much he's done and the amount of work he still has to do and to what standard

- the amount of money he has had so far

- the date you expect it to be finished.

Send a copy to the shop that recommended him and indicate that fact on the letter so he sees you have done so. Send the letter to him recommande avec avis de reception - which delivers you back a signed slip which shows who signed for the letter.

All this tells the artisan you are taking it seriously and you are beginning to build up a dossier which can be used against him. If he gets a lot of work from the shop who recommended him, he may be keen not to alienate them.

Good luck. [:P]

[LEO]

Catalpa, what a good posting !

I have already copied and pasted your posting into "Word" , in case I ever need it!

[Gardian]

[quote user="sweet 17"]

By now, I just want shot of him and engage another man to finish off the works and put right all the things that can be remedied (though we'll have to live with the stuff that can't be put right).

[/quote]

SW17 ...............

My instinct would be that you should do exactly that.  He's going to be nothing but trouble.

Cancel him (incl the order for parts) and find somebody else.  Probably easier said than done I know, but you're never going to be happy with this bloke's work. 

[Cendrillon]

"My OH was able to show him all the things that were wrong and, to our surprise, he agreed to put things right.  That was the good bit.  The bad news is, he said he would order the materials and come back after January!

To be honest, all I wanted was to be shot of him and get someone in to finish the job but my OH, being of a more forgiving nature, agreed to wait (yet again).  The thing is, there's no guarantee that the job will be done right and we would have hung about for something like 9 months for a job that should take no more than a couple of days (3 at most)."

 

I think you said in an earlier post that water was coming in because tiles not been replaced (or was that someone else?) I would now be inclined to complain loudly via the shop where you bought the stove. Tell them it's not good enough, job has not been completed to your satisfaction, get them to have words with this shoddy worker and to find you someone more suitable.

 

Bon courage

[Will]

If water is coming in to your house, then you should be able to initiate a claim on your house insurance. Your insurer will then want to claim from the artisan or his insurance, which could well provide the rocket up the bum he needs. You could claim direct from the artisan's insurance, but this can normally only be done after completion of the job by him, and payment of all money by you, neither of which sound as if they are going to happen. Unfortunately artisans often play on the fact that non-French people don't really understand the French way of dong things.

[oakbri]

Sweet17

Glad you have had some progress, even if it's not much. It seems the best way forward is via the shop you bought the stoves from. As another poster advised prepare a dossier listing all the problems, dates, monies paid and if possible including photos etc. I would then take it to the shop and get them to arrange a definite start date.

As your French friend said, it's not because you are English, they are treated the same way. The term Artisan means very little and due to the protectionist laws in France surrounding their trade they have until now had little reason to improve. As the EU grows and competition increases, both legitimate and illegal I hope things will get better. I have never been able to get my head round the laws governing builders here. I, like many others, can ply my trade here using my UK qualifications quite legally, yet builders, plumbers and the like cannot.

I do think things will change. For instance, I have seen a builders van many times in my village at various properties, all French owned. The van is signwritten in French, giving websites, mobile numbers etc but it is on POLISH number plates. The guy may well be registered here, but if he is why is his van not?

Anyway best of luck and keep us informed.

[Georgina]

I have seen many white vans with British number plates with Company names on at Brico stores.  I have also seen them working on properties here. They get away with it, because they can and maybe they feel that with a British number plate, they won't be easily detected. Does anyone know a sole who has been stopped for this - me neither?

Georgina

[Clair]

I do.

Last year, an article in the Dépêche du Midi described how two British builders had been heavily fined after they had started work on a British-owned property without having registered with the authorities.

They has been paid a huge amount of money by the British couple but had abandoned the project long before finishing it.

In their defence, they said they had planned registering but had started work in the meantime...[Www]

[oakbri]

If the authorities are clamping down on people working without paying their taxes etc that is fair enough. I only hope they put the same amount of effort into catching up with the "artisans" who happily fleece people of thousands of euros without ever planning to complete (or even start) the work for which they are being paid.

Mmmm. I think not. But if anyone has any stories to the contrary I would love to hear them.

[mint]

Thanks, guys.  Food for thought indeed, especially Catalpa's post.  Gardian, I am sure my instincts and yours are on the right track but I think that, as in the UK, perhaps you need to give them one chance to do what they said they would before you tell them to go forth.

To be honest, I feel that he has already been paid such a handsome amount that he has no real incentive to finish off the job.  In the meantime, the shop has said they will order some more parts from Godin, such as the "exhaust" pipe thing that comes out of the bois charbon stove.  The pipe the chap has installed is of a smaller diameter than the proper pipe and so the stove is burning hot as hell because the ventilation/suction whatever you call it is really fierce as it's going through a smaller pipe!

I see he's patched up some of the unnecessary holes he's made in the floorboards and they look vile, but there's little that can be done about them now.

Will consider tactics this weekend and try to find a way out of having to wait months more for the works to be finished.

Thanks a lot for the posts.  It's moral support such as gladdens the heart.