tax foncier

[fussy]

can someone tell me please when we will have to pay tax foncier and tax

habitation, we signed and moved into our house in sept 2006, our vendor

payed one of the taxes from january until they signed over the house to

us, then we gave them a portion of this until its due again, but we

havn't had a bill for the other one, thanks a lot

[Nick Trollope]

Middle of October, due for payment middle of November.

Typically, your experiences may vary....

[suein56]

[quote user="fussy"]but we havn't had a bill for the other one, thanks a lot [/quote]

You probably paid a proportion of the taxe foncière at the time you paid for your house; and will receive a bill for the taxe d'habitation this autumn, as it is paid by the person who owns the house on 1st January each year, which is why you didn't pay it last year.

Sue

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

My neighbour has his already even though they sent it to his old address in Ireland. We haven't got ours yet. Last year they sent it to our old address in Australia and we didn't get it until February. Bet they've done the same thing this year even though I asked them to change the address.

Oh well, their loss. I'm not going to chase it.

[Victor Meldrew]

Unless you notified them by recorded delivery letter of your change of address, they may well send the bill to your old address. But to make matters worse, they will still add a 10% penalty if payment is not made on time.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this is from experience.

Regards

Victor 

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

Last year, they tried the 10% extra charge on, but I refused to pay it, and they waived it. I also told them my change of address over the phone and by email and both times they accepted it saying their records are now up to date and correct. If they're still not, then that's their fault. They haven't told me I need to send a letter by recorded delivery or anything. This happened with tax d'habitation too. The excess was waived both times. And rightly so.

[fussy]

sorry to nit pick, but I have been reading your replys, we did indeed

pay a portion of one of the taxes, but we thought it was the tax

habitation, as you say our vendor was living in the house on the 1st of

Jan 2006, we signed on sept 2006 so we payed the portion from the sept,

I think I am clear on that score, but why didnt we get a bill for that

other one last year, for the year 2007 (confused ? I am ) thank you

[suein56]

[quote user="fussy"]sorry to nit pick,  but why didnt we get a bill for that other one last year, for the year 2007 (confused ? I am ) thank you
[/quote]

Cos you pay both in arrears and the bills don't come out til the Autumn of the year they cover. I don't like to argue - but I will - the tax you paid part of would definitely be taxe foncière; taxe d'habitation is never split - to my knowledge anyway - I am almost sure there is a legal reason why, but I can't remember it at present.

Sue

[fussy]

thanks for all that get over the first year here and it all falls into place

[suein56]

[quote user="fussy"] ...get over the first year here and it all falls into place [/quote]

That's about it.

Sue

[Geordie girl]

Sorry to drag this thread up again but we moved  here march 31st 2007. We went to the offices concerned in December 2007 as we hadn`t yet recieved any bills for taxe foncier or taxe d`habitation and our neighbours had. We were told that we did not have to pay either bills as we did not own the house on Jan 1st 2007. Ok so far. We are now getting letters and phone calls from our English vendor demanding we pay him back the monies from last march to december. We went back to the offices and they again told us not to pay. Now i am getting quite worried about this as i hate bad feeling. Are we legally obliged to pay the money to him or do we just ignore him? Do we go to the mairie and explain to him or what? If we have to pay the money then of course we will. Is this normal practice to pay him back?  Thankyou for your help.

[mint]

Wish you hadn't brought this up, GG.  We, as you know, moved here about the same time as you.  Had not had either tax bill even though we went to the Tax Office (got a receipt of our visit) and practically demanded a bill.

Spoke to my French teacher who says are you mad, you never ask for a bill in France, if you owe something, they will ask you!

Have been chasing the notaire for the completion of purchase documents but nothing forthcoming so far.  Making me quite ill with worry.  Anyone got any thoughts?  GG?

[Geordie girl]

Thanks sweet, but i`m just fed up, the offices say we don`t have to pay but the letters from the people we bought from are getting quite nasty. We were just going to send him a check but then others tell us to ignore him.We had an email from him less than an hour ago demanding the money and telling us we are legally and morally bound to pay him.

[BJSLIV]

The tax bills will be sent to the person who owned the property at the start of the year. So the officials are right the 2007 bills will be sent to the vendor and they you will not receive the bills.

However...

The normal procedure is for the fonciere (but not the habitation) to be apportioned in the manner the vendor is saying. In some cases the vendor may waive this right, especially if the taxes are small and/or the sale takes place late in the year.

If you haven't as yet received your title documents, or do not have a copy of what you signed, speak to the notaire, who will tell you what was agreed in your case.

However it's 99% certain that you will be liable to pay.

 

[Jacqui Too]

Hi GG

We bought our house end of Jan 07 and the notaire told us we would be responsible for 11 months of tax Fonciere. ( Although we already knew that that was the norm) He told us that the bill would be sent to our vendor and that we should reimburse him when the bill arrives.

In Sept  we contacted our agent over another matter and he told us that our vendor had received the bill and we should pay it now, which we did.

We did not pay any habitation because the house is not yet occupied or habitable[:-))]

So I think this should have been covered at the time of purchase, so perhaps a visit to him/her would sort it out. I don't understand why your vendor have taken so long to ask you for the money as they should of had the bill last year! 

[Geordie girl]

Thank you for your replies, Our vendor is demanding we pay both bills, so we will visit the notaire and  take our vendors letters with us, and if we have to pay then of course we will. 

Thanks again you lot always come up trumps  [:D]

 

Edit..........Just to add , our vendors sent us the bills and when we took them to the offices we were still told we should not pay. Thats where the confusion was , the authorities saying no and the vendors saying yes.  [8-)][8-)][8-)]

 

 

 

 

[PaulT]

Geordie Girl

We completed on our house in January of last year. The apportioning of bills was part of discussions prior to signing the Acte (we and the vendors, English were both present).

The discussion started with the Notaire talking about apportioning the bills. As the vendors would only have owned the house for part of one month for which the bills would be due we stated that we would pay them in full when they were payable.

The bills arrived addressed to us and which we duly paid. I therefore presume that the Notaire duly informed the authorities of the outcome of the agreement at the signing of the Acte and they were therefore issued to us.

If there was no discussion about this then as far as I am aware without the agreement to apportion then the person owning the house on the 1st Jan is liable. Only if this had happened and been agreed are you liable for part of the bill.

In your position the person who you bought off of is liable and you do not need to pay anything. The problem is theirs and THEY need to take it up with the Notaire.

Paul

 

[Clair]

As said before, the taxe d'habitation is due by the person who owned the property on 1st Jan. You do not have to pay any of it, even if the previous owner asks you to.

The taxe foncière is divided between the seller and the buyer. If the sale takes place in

January, the buyer pays 11/12 of its amount to the seller; if it

takes place in September, he pays 3/12...

The agreement is usually written into the acte de vente and the amount either is settled at the time of the purchase, based on the tax paid the previous year or later when the seller provides a copy of the tax bill to the buyer.

In my case, the seller's solicitor sent me a demand some 15 months after the sale of the property. My reply pointed out that I had not received any previous request from the buyer and that the onus was on him to provide me with a copy of the tax demand. I paid my share when this was sent a few weeks later.

[allanb]

Is it possible that when you think the tax office is saying "you don't have to pay" what they are really saying is "you don't have to pay us"?

The tax may have been paid, and (as others have pointed out) you may have to reimburse whoever paid it. But I don't think the question of reimbursement is any business of the tax office.

[Geordie girl]

Thank you for your replies. We viewed this house in jan 07 didn`t pay any deposits, met the vendors in the estate agents and went through and signed the paperwork to say we`d buy it.The vendors used to rent the place out as a holiday home and we got them to sign a paper that they would completely empty the house ready for us to take over.We came back to France 31st March, visited the notaire did the business , cant remember any discussions re the taxes but i may be wrong there. The vendor was not at the notaires, he did a proxy thing; We arrived at the house with a huge removal van full of our stuff to find the vendors hadn`t even taken a picture down , they`d walked away & left the place as it was. That`s another story though. We only met the vendor once, at the estate agents and there was no discussion about taxes. Like i said if we have to pay, then we will pay but really it`s his attitude that`s annoying us..

 

 

[mint]

Poor GG, looks like your vendor was about as helpful as ours then!  I didn't realise that you only bought last year.  We bought in August 2006 and still no tax bills, no documents from the notaire, zilch!

Well, it will all have to wait till I come back to France next month and then I will make an appointment with that model of efficiency, the notaire who was supposed to have dealt with everything.

I am now worried whether we have legal title to the property at all!

[Cjlaws]

Geordy Girl - Clair's post sets out the position very well. It is virtually certain that you owe the vendor the apportioned part of the taxe foncière - that's a standard clause in the compromis de vente. There's probably a clause containing text like this:

Que

la taxe foncière se répartira prorata temporis entre VENDEUR et ACQUEREUR ; dès à présent, L'ACQUÉREUR s'engage à rembourser à la

première réquisition du VENDEUR, la fraction lui incombant.

Note that you owe it to the vendor, and not to the tax authorities (hence their telling you that you "don't have to pay it" - as allanb says you don't have to pay them).

Again, as Clair says taxe d'habitation is due by the person who owned the property on 1st January. It is never apportioned.

Sorry if you're having problems with the vendor, but the above should help you sort it out with him.

[Geordie girl]

Thankyou so so much all of you for your prompt and helpful replies. I will send a cheque for 75% of the Taxe foncier bill.  The taxe d `habitation, i will ignore his threats for that .

Thanks again  [:D]

 

 

 

 

[Benjamin]

I'd also deduct a sum for clearing the house when you took over and enclose a copy of the note they signed.

As they seem to be a bit wriggly I'd also try to get the Tresor Public to confirm that they have actually paid the fonciere before sending off the cheque as well as confirming with the Notaire that he hasn't already apportioned it in his accounts and not yet told the vendor.

[BJSLIV]

You really do need to check with either the notaire, or the notaire's settlement statement, to make sure that  you haven't already paid.

They sometimes include an apportionment based on the previous year's bill.

If that has been done you only owe 75% of the increase in the Tax Fonciere.