Speaking and working

[Richardrawlings]

I have a question and I apologise now if it has been answered before just can't find any reference

When applying for jobs in France do you have to prove how well you can speak the language If so how important is this. Obviously it helps to speak the language if you are considering working there but how much importance do employers place on certficates etc

 

Thanks

[Ormx]

I don't really know about France, but judging how sacred their language is to them, I would assume a good level is needed but that would surely depend on the job (i.e if you're going to spend the day driving a lorry from A to B perhaps they won't be worried if it takes a while to communicate at each end).

I would comment on the job I did in Ireland where we employed many nationalities. I was involved in interviewing for a certain position and we recruited about 50 people over the course of 2 years. Each time we interviewed someone we asked "can he/she communicate properly in order to do the job" and for foreign language speakers we asked if their English was strong enough (also under the communication heading). Several times we questioned their language abilities later, i.e. they were able to do the job but there were often misunderstandings and sometimes the customer service was poor as they seemed too abrupt on the phone and caused customers to get upset etc. This happened a few times and we did have to talk to them about telephone manner. However in the end we always employed the person if the language was sufficient to do the job, because often they had other things to offer that the average Irish/English candidate didn't. Of course the company I worked for was very PC and wouldn't have discriminated unless there was good reason.

[Teamedup]

 Before you even get as far as an interview, they will expect certain aspects of your application to be handwritten, and the standard of your french and your personality are judged by this. If you just copy a letter written by someone else  in excellant french you would soon be found out. 

RE speaking good french, well it would depend on what sort of job you were after and who it was with and your qualifications. Let's face it, international companies do help out, if they want you.

I have no idea as to how easy it would be to get taken on by a normal french company, (I suppose that would depend on what they do and if they needed your english). If they didn't need your english then you certainly would be judged as I have mentioned above and if they could be bothered with putting up with someone with poor french, rather than taking on a french person. And as there is high unemployment in many regions here including highly qualified people, I wouldn't be holding my breath.

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

I have no experience but I have asked a lot of French peoples' opinions over the years. They all said that certificates would be of no value, one is in the same position as a French native - ability to speak, understand, read and write French would be assessed as part of the interview procedure in as much as it is necessary. It is possible that if someone is considering a written application they might have doubts and pass you over - a phone call would get round that.

[opas]

ormx.... I don`t want to put a downer of the original poster about how well you have to be able to speak French to get a job here in France,but let me sugest you look on the `working in France forums` do a search under`how long does it take to gat a job`. That posting was by me about my significant other , who speaks good french ,spent a week  in a classroom full of French lorry drivers speaking more than basic french, to pass the neccessary exams to gain  qualifications to allow him to drive a HGV in france. He is HGV class 1 driver with over 20 years  UK and european experience  and believe you me it is not just a case of driving a waggon from A to B .one has to understand the driving regulations , drivers hours , to be able to call out a breakdown truck and successfully direct them to the vehicle in case of a blow out or breakdown, I could go on and on but I am sure you will get the drift.

Mrs O

[Ormx]

Whoops, obviously I know nothing about that, apologies. But you do get my drift surely, my point was that there are some jobs that require minimal language ability, that's all I wanted to say.

[letrangere]

As others have said, it depends entirely upon what you'll be doing and who you'll be working for.  But Teamedup is right about the importance placed by French employers on a handwritten letter of application accompanying your typed CV.  My handwriting is atrocious and this was a major concern of mine when I was job hunting.  And, again subject to what you'll be doing, you'll be interviewed in French so will have to explain with reasonable proficiency what you've done already, what you want to do, why you think you're the person for the job, etc.  M

[opas]

Go on , name one job that you think would need minimal language skills,after getting your social security number at the ASSEDIC and then the interview at the ANPE. Mrs O

[Ormx]

Teaching English in a language school.

[Richardrawlings]

Thanks for your replies.

Mr or Mrs O

Thanks for the lead. Just to clarify, you drove your HGV for 5mins and about a mile and got the job?

I dont think that I explained myself clearly. Are there any Language Exams that are recognised by the French that show the quality of language you can use so this is one area where it eases the barrier a bit? Or is it a case of wing it and see?

 

 

 

[letrangere]

Richard, the French Ministry of Education's exams for foreigners, DELF and the higher DALF, are supposedly recognised as a measure of a candidate's ability in both written and oral work.  The latter is also a prerequisite if, as a native English speaker, you want to study at a French university.  Passing them is also an incredible confidence booster.  M 

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

Glad your exams went well.

I have not come across anyone in France who would be swayed by such qualifications although they are of benefit for those seeking employment in non-Francophone countries which requires them to speak French.

[opas]

Richardrawlings. So you found the post. Yes 5 mins driving (20 years + experience in UK and Europe) and  then nearly 4 hours sat in an induction to understand how the company works/pays etc, before that happened Mr O sat in a classroom for 5 days with 25 other frenchmen and not a word of English spoken by anyone ,all techical and neccessary for the qualification. Mrs O

[Lollie]

[quote]Thanks for your replies. Mr or Mrs O Thanks for the lead. Just to clarify, you drove your HGV for 5mins and about a mile and got the job? I dont think that I explained myself clearly. Are there an...[/quote]

Hi Richard,

I am currently on a French course in Saint Nazaire, run by CIFOR Ouest, 12hrs per week, gratuit,  The levels are FLE1-4, Francais Langue Etranger.   They also help with CV,s and arrange a session at ANPE to understand how it works.   Explained in a class one day was why people who spoke french fluently were attending the course,   lack of reading and writing skills, and to even be a cleaner here you must understand the labels on cleaning fluids!  So I guess from a safety level only,  a reasonable command both oral and written is required, apart from teaching English, of course.  

[Richardrawlings]

Thanks Lollie

Just to make it absolutly clear I am not going to relocate to France without being able to speak French! I just wanted to know if there was any way I could prove to Mr Xenophobic Frenchman that I can speak and read and write his language

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

You write your letter of motivation in French, make a phone call in French to follow it up, and your interview is in French too. That's proof.

[Gine]

It's not always necessary to have good French (or indeed any at all)to be employed in France. Its highly dependent on the nature of the job and the company. The French company I work for employs many non French speakers in France. The business language is English and we employ many people around the globe who do not speak the native language. Indeed, the only exceptions to this are the English speaking countries. You cannot work in an English speaking country unless you have very good English (company rules, not mine).

I think you may find that other large multi nationals have a similar kind of attitude.

[Izz.]

hi there,

There are places that teach foreign students (adults and younger) i cannot remember the name of the exam right now but if you telephone the G.R.E.T.A.in Niort, Bressuire, if you live in the 79 or call 12 and ask for G.... in your chosen town. The examination will look at your langauge abilities in four skills: listening, speaking reading and writing. Hope that will be of some help and i wish you success. Izz

[Karen_Ian]

I agree with what others have written, your letter of motivation and CV will immediately give the employer a rough guide to your level of french. If they're interested in your other skills then an interview will confirm, or not, your ability to cope with the language.

I've no official qual in french but have just put on my CV I'm fair at reading, writing, speaking. I'm currently doing a replacement in a lycée and to be honest I don't think I have the spoken skills, I hoped I had but day to day living french is very different to teaching a subject in french with it's own specialist language. At the interview I was very honest about my level of spoken french, though it's pretty evident as soon as I start speaking! But for them my technical skills and having someone in the classroom so the students can progress and not lose this time were obviously more important then my ability to explain it in perfect french. Before anyone is too worried about these poor students, it's only for 3 weeks and I'm teaching sewing so lots is done through demos - thankfully!

While a qualification may help you feel more confident with your language I think my point is it just depends on what else you have to offer. The employer probably takes it for granted you have french if you're applying for a post so in my opinion (and this is the first time I worked in France so others may correct me), it's your other skills they'll be wanting the proof of / certificates for.

[Tourangelle]

In France many French companies want their higher level executives to have taken something called the TOEIC test.  It is an American test, and it is English for international communication.  Basically it is listening and reading, and most companies want the person to get 750 points out of a possible 900ish.  Often, it is a condition for promotion.  Lots of big companies use it, and in my teaching I have prepared people for it from Renault, from EDF, from Adecco.  It is a load of rubbish, (I've seen people with appaling accents hit the 750 and other who communicated really well not get it:plain  but it gives you a nice number and the French seem to absolutely love it.  There is an equivalent called the TFI (test de francais international I think), and I think anybody who was going to apply for a job in a big company should consider taking it.

Jane