French ID card

[cricri]

Hi, Has anyone decided to apply for a French ID card? I have lived and worked in France for the passed 5 years. An ID card would be easier to carry around than my British passport.

Terry

 

[Will]

Under normal circumstances, you will only get a French ID card if you take French nationality.

[5-element]

You need to have French citizenship before you can have a French I.D. card.

[Val_2]

Why not just apply for a Titre de Séjour which is as good as an identity card and is perfectly acceptable everywhere except for travelling abroad. These are not obligatory anymore and your prefecture can refuse your application but you have the right to insist on one. Go the local mairie with every bit of personal documentation you have including two utility bills and fill in the form for them to send off.

[cricri]

Thanks for the replys.

I thought the Titre de Séjour might be the answer, but i cross the border to Basel (Bale) each day to work.

A slight change of subject, my son (16) is British with a British passport and French ID. Will he have to relinqish the ID at some point?

 

[5-element]

There should be no reason why he would have to relinquish either, if he has a French ID, then he must have dual nationality, and be  both British and French.

How did he acquire his French ID? Was he born in France? Is his father British, or French?

[cricri]

His father is British, moi, and mother French. He was born in German when i was in the military. He doesn't have dual nationality. I have asked a few times for a French ID card, but told i would have to give up my British citizenship. No way.

[Will]

It depends what the reasons are for wanting an ID card for yourself. If it's just for photo ID in shops etc, then titre de sejour would be ideal, because it offers proof of address as well as identity. As noted above you may have to insist because they are not normally issued to British subjects. Being  European gives us a basic right to be in France. I have a titre de sejour which has been very useful, but I got it before the requirements were relaxed.

Alternatively if you have a photo driving licence, that is often accepted as ID. The disadvantage is that if it is a British licence (perfectly legal for use in France) it cannot show your French address, so if carrying that (or your passport) you really need to have a utility bill or something else in your name that verifies your real address.

Titre de sejour is no good for travel - for that a passport is required. So it's not really a proper solution for the original questioner. This is the major difference between TdS and the French ID card, which is accepted as a substitute for a passport when travelling to many places. However, when asked for ID in some circumstances, like on cross-border trains or at hotels in other European countries, I have often produced my Titre de Sejour which has been accepted.

I'm probably wrong, but if your son has both French ID card and British passport he must already have dual nationality, on account of his parentage? If his situation does change, I would imagine it would be when he reaches the age of legal majority.

[5-element]

Sorry Cricri. I thought you were your son's mother, not his father[:)].

I am sorry but your situation and that of your son, sound confused to me, but that might be because I know nothing about rules for the military.

I have dual citizenship, one British passport, one French passport, and one French ID card. There are many people who have that status, so I just don't know why you received the information you did about having to give up your British citizenship to obtain a French ID card? And I also don't understand how your son would have a French ID card if he is not a French national (as well as a British one, of course)?

I would be very interested in finding out.

[Will]

I don't know your circumstances, 5-E, but I think that if you qualify for dual nationality through parentage, birth or similar, you can have two passports. However if you just have a single nationality, should you change then you have to relinquish your former citizenship, and thus your entitlement to passport etc. That certainly seems to be the case if you change from British to French.

[Suze01]

[quote user="Will"]I don't know your circumstances, 5-E, but I think that if you qualify for dual nationality through parentage, birth or similar, you can have two passports. However if you just have a single nationality, should you change then you have to relinquish your former citizenship, and thus your entitlement to passport etc. That certainly seems to be the case if you change from British to French.[/quote]

"La loi française n'exige pas qu'un étranger devenu français renonce à

sa nationalité d'origine ou qu'un Français ayant acquis une nationalité

étrangère renonce à la nationalité française ceci sous réserve des

traités internationaux et notamment, dans le cadre du Conseil de

l'Europe, des Conventions du 6 mai 1963 sur la réduction des cas de

pluralité de nationalités et du 6 novembre 1997 sur la nationalité. "

Taken from http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/N111.xhtml?&n=Famille&l=N10

I'm in the process of deciding whether to take dual nationality, have all the forms etc just need to decide and put pen to paper.

[Maricopa]

[quote user="5-element"]

And I also don't understand how your son would have a French ID card if he is not a French national (as well as a British one, of course)?

I would be very interested in finding out.

[/quote]

Cricri's son has French nationality by virtue of having been born to a French woman, regardless of the actual country of birth.  All is explained at this site:

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/N111.xhtml?&n=Etrangers%20en%20France&l=N8

Hope this helps.[:D]

Edit: Apologies for duplicating the website link Lisleoise

 

[5-element]

[quote user="Will"]However if you just have a single nationality, should you change then you have to relinquish your former citizenship, and thus your entitlement to passport etc. That certainly seems to be the case if you change from British to French.[/quote]

 

So if you are born British and wish to acquire French nationality, you lose your British citizenship?

I am French born, and did not have to relinquish my French nationality when I became a  British national  later.

It does seem rather strange, as I would have thought that both Britain and France have the same policy in relation to each other.

Someone close to me was American born, and acquired British citizenship, and now also has dual nationality (British and American).

Is Britain an exception insofar as it doesn't allow its citizens dual nationality?

 

Thank you also Lisleoise and Maricopa.

 

[FairyNuff]

My British-born sister-in-law is married to an American has dual British and US citizenship. She finds it easier flying between the two continents to use the British passport on arrival in Britain or Europe, and the US passport on arrival in the states. So I'm afraid I think Will is in error on this occasion.

FairyNuff  [:)]

[Will]

My understanding was the same as the original poster's. From the link posted by Lisleoise it does look as if France allows one to keep one's nationality - within the framework of the EU conventions of plurality of nationality. Having tried to research things a bit further all I have come up with is that there is no problem with dual nationality when it is acquired through birth, marriage etc, or if you are from outside Europe (e.g. American, Australian), but EU conventions appear to allow EU member states to restrict EU citizens to one nationality in the case of acquiring it by request, at least since 1997. So that seems to mean that you can take dual nationality - or not.

I don't really know the answer, because I personally have no desire to either take French nationality or give up British citizenship. But if anybody does have a definitive answer I am sure others will be interested. You learn something every day...

Edit - this post was edited while further researching this, I think the former version to which Maricopa replied was ambiguous.

[Maricopa]

[quote user="Lisleoise"]
"La loi française n'exige pas qu'un étranger devenu français renonce à sa nationalité d'origine ou qu'un Français ayant acquis une nationalité étrangère renonce à la nationalité française ceci sous réserve des traités internationaux et notamment, dans le cadre du Conseil de l'Europe, des Conventions du 6 mai 1963 sur la réduction des cas de pluralité de nationalités et du 6 novembre 1997 sur la nationalité. "

[/quote]

I may be wrong, but surely this states something along the lines of "French law doesn't require you to relinquish your original nationality...."[8-)]

M

[Will]

Further information regarding British citizenship:

You do not need to give up your present citizenship or nationality to become a British citizen.

Many countries will not let you have two nationalities (dual nationality). If you become a British citizen and are a national of a country which does not allow dual nationality, the authorities of that country may either regard you as having lost that nationality or may refuse to recognise your new nationality. Before you apply for British citizenship you may wish to check what your position would be with the authorities of the country of which you are a citizen.

If you become a national of another country

You will not normally lose your British nationality if you become a citizen or national of another country. If you are a British subject otherwise than by connection with the Republic of Ireland you will lose that status on acquiring any other nationality or citizenship. If you are a British protected person you will lose that status on acquiring any other nationality or citizenship.

If you are becoming a citizen or national of a country that does not allow dual nationality, you may be required by that country to give up your British nationality.

From: http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/dualnationality/

[Maricopa]

[quote user="Will"]

I don't really know the answer, because I personally have no desire to either take French nationality or give up British citizenship. But if anybody does have a definitive answer I am sure others will be interested. You learn something every day...

Edit - this post was edited while further researching this, I think the former version to which Maricopa replied was ambiguous.

[/quote]

Thanks Will

Personally, I do intend to apply for French citizenship when I can, but would not consider doing so if it meant giving up my British citizenship as well.  It was always my understanding that you could hold both.

M

[5-element]

[quote user="cricri"] I have asked a few times for a French ID card, but told i would have to give up my British citizenship. No way.[/quote]

Thank you so much for all that research, Will. So it does look like Cricri, the OP, was misinformed and would not  have to give up his British citizenship if he acquired French citizenship

[Speedy]

Can anyone confirm : I have heard that carte de sejours are about to be stopped!

Note : re address - when you move in France the authorities do NOT change the carte de sejour address (or even your passports if you are French!!)

[Will]

Cartes de sejours are still a legal requirement for non-Europeans. They have not been required for citizens of the main EU member states for several years now.

However, a law in the course of introduction means that EU citizens wishing to take up residence in France will have to register with their mairie, and part of this registration will include proving that you have adequate income and have suitable health insurance cover - just like the titre de sejour requirements. Perhaps this is behind what you have heard? Not stopping, but changing things for Europeans.

When we moved we had to get an 'official' sticky label through the mairie, with our new address, that was stuck over the old address on the carte de sejour. I don't think the European passport shows your address.

 

[Speedy]

We moved within France 2 years ago and the prefecture would not change addresses on 'paperwork' the only legal requirement (we were told - my wife is French) was the car papers!

A French passport (from memory) does show the address.

Ahh..now lets play with the words( ( not picking - just trying to explore the situation) you say EU citizens wanting to take up residency...what about those already there.

[parsnips]

[quote user="Will"]

Cartes de sejours are still a legal requirement for non-Europeans. They have not been required for citizens of the main EU member states for several years now.

However, a law in the course of introduction means that EU citizens wishing to take up residence in France will have to register with their mairie, and part of this registration will include proving that you have adequate income and have suitable health insurance cover - just like the titre de sejour requirements. Perhaps this is behind what you have heard? Not stopping, but changing things for Europeans.

When we moved we had to get an 'official' sticky label through the mairie, with our new address, that was stuck over the old address on the carte de sejour. I don't think the European passport shows your address.

 

[/quote]

     New residency rules introduced last year are as above, and also state that EU citizens who meet the criteria can ask for a carte de sejour, which cannot be refused. However as yet no form has yet been issued for the mairies to record the information on resources, and having demanded a renewal of an expiring carte de sejour, I can confirm that (at least in Charente-Maritime) such cartes are not being issued yet, instead you get a standard letter saying a passport will suffice (as has been the case for the last 5 yrs or so).

  See gov. site vos droits -"étrangers en france-citoyens communautaires en france-droit de sejour des citoyens européens inactifs-formalités à l'installation en france." 

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="Speedy"]

Ahh..now lets play with the words( ( not picking - just trying to explore the situation) you say EU citizens wanting to take up residency...what about those already there.

[/quote]

If you take the time to explore the forum, you will find a FAQ explaining all this [url=http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1021900/ShowPost.aspx]HERE[/url].

 

[Will]

My understanding is that the new ruling, when it comes in, will not apply to those already in France. Which is why those particular words were used. That seems to be confirmed by Sunday Driver's excellent FAQ link.