Dinner Etiquette

[lorna]

We have been guests at lunch and dinner but tomorrow we will be returning some hospitality and will be hosts. I've found a thread on dinner etiquette and that has some useful tips - I didn't know about the hands on table thing, we almost certainly got that wrong when we were guests.

We are doing tagine for the main course, should we serve this out or can guests serve themselves? Should we serve/offer to the ladies first, does it matter?

We've got a reasonable idea of courses and drinks from the times we have been guests ourselves but any additional tips will be appreciated.

I'm sure they won't mind if some things are done the British way but I don't want to do anything which would be considered rude

[Clair]

The mistress of the house usually serves, starting with the ladies (oldest first), then the men (oldest first).

The master of the house serves the wine

Alternatively, in a less formal fashion, the serving dish is put in the centre of the table and the plates piles next to it. The mistress of the house serves in the same order as before.

The main course can be offered again to greedy/famished guests [:D]

A few tips here (in French):

Recevoir

à dîner : les codes et les trucs

[lorna]

Thank-you Clair, those serving tips are really helpful, I'll have a look through the link you've posted although my OH's French is better so I'll pass it on to him as well.

[Kitty]

I was intrigued what you said about hands and so looked for the thread that you talked about.  I think that this is it (from 2005):

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/542503/ShowPost.aspx

I didn't know that you shouldn't put hands under the table (presumably that means on your lap).  I now know....

 

[mint]

I am sure you already know this but don't be afraid to serve a plain salad, just lettuce leaves or endives with some dressing, after the main course if you don't want to do vegetables (especially in this warm weather).

The French do this so well and with no apologies, therefore it must be the OK thing to do.

Enjoy!

[lorna]

Yes, here is a link that explains the reason why - the king feared assassination!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_manners#French_table_manners

Curious that this custom should have carried through to today.

Edit: this was an answer to Cathy's post.

[lorna]

Thank-you Sweet 17. OH decided the French expect something hot for the main course - don't know if he's right. Everything else will be cold.

[Kitty]

Great Wiki link, Lorna.  Interesting that the British have over twice the number of 'rules' as the French.

So elbows on tables here in France - my children will be pleased.  They love being able to drink the surplus milk from cereal direct from the bowl without having to scoop it up painfully with a spoon.

 

[mint]

Yes, Lorna, I usually do a hot main course.  I suppose you could serve roast or grilled meats?  I have not so far done a big dinner for French people in the warm weather.

It was simplicity itself in the winter as I have one of these bois-charbon stoves which cook all meats to a mouth-watering tenderness that enables you to shrug your shoulders in a nonchalant way and say, "Mais, c'est bien simple!" 

[Clair]

[quote user="Cathy"]So elbows on tables here in France - my children will be pleased.  They love being able to drink the surplus milk from cereal direct from the bowl without having to scoop it up painfully with a spoon.[/quote]

Elbows on the table are a big no-no at French tables.

The forearms should rest lightly on the edge of the table.

[Kitty]

[quote user="Clair"]The forearms should rest lightly on the edge of the table.
[/quote]

This sounds painful.  I think that I'll stick to barbecues rather than dinner parties, even in deepest winter.

[Just Katie]

I agree Cathy,  it is all well and good to be respectful and polite but I just thank god I am not Chinese.

BTW I was really surprised to learn that it is a no no to blow your nose in your napkin in UK [blink]....................... I must remember that one!! [:D]

Oh, and while we are on the subject, I was told it was rude to say Mmmmmmmmm by the table in France.  I always forget that one.  [:$]

[mint]

[quote user="Just Katie"]

I agree Cathy,  it is all well and good to be respectful and polite but I just thank god I am not Chinese.

BTW I was really surprised to learn that it is a no no to blow your nose in your napkin in UK [blink]....................... I must remember that one!! [:D]

Oh, and while we are on the subject, I was told it was rude to say Mmmmmmmmm by the table in France.  I always forget that one.  [:$]

[/quote]

But I am![:D]

[Just Katie]

You are Chinese Sweet??  How do you remember all those rules with your chopsticks??

[Christine Animal]

Chopsticks, fingers, whatever, just sit down and enjoy your meal.  I have never felt pressured into any etiquette in France.  As long as you appreciate and enjoy your meal, everyone feels at ease, then the French are usually happy with that.  Don't worry Lorna about getting everything right, it's not so important here.  It's what is in your plate and a friendly atmosphere that counts.   [:)]

 

[lorna]

Just read through all the posts since late last night. Thanks for all the good advice, I'm logging off now to finish getting ready. OH has just fixed up some temporary shade for our terrace, we get the afternoon and evening sun there which is lovely but a bit too hot at the moment without shade. Until tomorrow....[:)]

[Chancer]

I am a pepper lover and whenever I have asked for it at the table comments have been made, albeit in a joking fashion but now I realise why!

You never get a second chance to make a first impression[:)]

[WJT]

J.R. I must have missed something, I don't understand your comment about pepper and can anyone explain what the following from Clair's link means? [8-)]

Saucer son assiette avec un morceau de pain. A la limite, si vous en mourrez d'envie, placez un petit bout de pain au bout de votre fourchette.

I think Christine has given excellent advice, just hope my French neighbours that I have eaten with are as generous. [:)]

[Clair]

[quote user="WJT"]Saucer son assiette avec un morceau de pain. A la limite, si vous en mourrez d'envie, placez un petit bout de pain au bout de votre fourchette.

[/quote]

"Wiping the sauce off your plate with a piece of bread. If you must and really want to do so, use your fork with a small piece of bread."

[cooperlola]

I like the idea that "the mistress of the house" (lovely phrase) would prefer a bunch of flowers to a bottle of champagne.  Not this one, she wouldn't.....[:D]

[WJT]

[quote user="cooperlola"]I like the idea that "the mistress of the house" (lovely phrase) would prefer a bunch of flowers to a bottle of champagne.  Not this one, she wouldn't.....[:D][/quote]

Me too. [:D]

Thank you Clair. I couldn't make out what it meant and was worried that it said don't put your bread on your plate.[:)]

[Kitty]

[quote user="WJT"]

J.R. I must have missed something, I don't understand your comment about pepper.

[/quote]

Earlier in the thread, it said that it was impolite to add salt or pepper to the meal if you are a guest.

[lorna]

Hi all,

Just taking a short break from the washing-up! It was all fine. OH had bought some champagne and we sat outside with that and some nibbles to start. A bit on the warm side initially (sunwise) but otherwise fine. One guest whom we knew would be a bit late was delayed further by traffic (she works in Lyon) and we waited for her before starting the main meal indoors. Probably just as well as it had cooled a little by the time we went indoors.

Having checked out the dinner etiquette before hand it was interesting to observe that aspect.  Hands were not kept on the table at all times but when not eating, our guests tended to sit with arms crossed rather than on their laps. That feels odd to me, I think I tend to sit with one arm on the table and one on my lap when not eating. They did have elbows on the table, that may have just been between courses I didn't really notice.

We tried to serve as suggested and I think I managed to once serve the eldest lady first but the helpful gentleman next to me started to hold plates for me and served the very attractive lady to his left first (rather than his wife). Really, as far as the food was concerned they didn't seem to have any particular expectations.

It was reasonably relaxed, our guests were two very nice couples who hadn't known each other previously and they chatted away happily to each other when they weren't talking to us. Having got this first one over I think I would be more confident next time. Christine's comments were spot on. [:)]

[Clair]

Glad it all went well for you and your guests [:)]

The fact that they were dishing the plates out is a sure sign of a relaxed and friendly atmosphere.

Diner etiquette as described in the links provided is all fine and dandy when you're trying to impress your boss, but in the end, its' all about enjoying each other's company and not feeling self-conscious about how you are perceived.

What did you serve in the end?

PS: A last comment about the elbows on the table, it's a no-no when eating and is perfectly fine when having a chat between courses.

[lorna]

[quote user="Clair"]
What did you serve in the end?

[/quote]

We had four courses which is what we have been given when we have been guests. OH usually cooks when it's a special occasion and he did this time. We had red onion tart with goat's cheese and salad to start, lamb tagine and couscous (we did far too much couscous) for the main course. Then cheese, we had four cheeses including a blue cheese. We don't like blue cheese ourselves but thought that it was popular here - it was suggested in the cheese shop - but no-one touched the blue cheese so we gave it away today For dessert we had a fruit-topped tart which we had bought - the couple who had been at the do where we took a crumble asked us why we hadn't done a crumble! One lady had brought us some home-made chocolates and we had those with coffee.

It all seemed to go down pretty well.[:)]