School dinners

[SaligoBay]

Article from the BBC about French school dinners.   Warning - it's based on Paris, so it's a tad pretentious in bits .

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/3701362.stm

Must show it to my son in the morning, see if he thinks the cantine is so great, but I think I know the answer already!   No glossy brochures for us down here in les provinces, just the menu stuck up on the board, so I can only guess at descriptions of "something beef with lots of fat floating on top" or "something fish that was cooked to be all slimy".   

A few of my English friends seem to be genuinely shocked that packed lunches aren't allowed.  As Mistral said elsewhere, it's really just not an issue here (I hope I haven't misquoted you, M!), and they're not seen as an adequate replacement for Real Food.   I do wonder if they're just objecting to the principle (i.e. Lack of Choice) rather than any nutritional worries.

Different attitudes.

[zeb]

Interesting SB.

Our little local weekly newsheet prints the following weeks menus for schools in the Confolens (16) area. I've always remarked to all and sundry how delicious they sound - but maybe it doesn't to those who have to eat it!

helen (who will never forget the veggies boiled to extinction and the slaps for refusing them - anything has to be better, even chicken nuggets!)

[letrangere]

And it wasn't too bad in the 70s either, personally I'm very fond of celeri remoulade and grated beetroot!

Has wine ever been served with meals at French schools?  I remember British friends living in Milan in early 80s expressing their astonishment that their little daughter (7 or 8) received a glass of watered down red wine with lunch at her convent.

M

 

[Dick Smith]

An article very strong on tarty pretention and very slight on facts, methought. And a 'soon-to-be-born daughter called Marie'? Puh-leeeze! Did someone at the BBC send a memo asking if the Paris correspondent was still in post?

[SaligoBay]

LOL, did you not think the pretentiousness was part of its charm?    The BBC are usually a bit more sensible, but then it's Paris, and we all know it's a world apart up there.

Helen16 - yes, our menu looks good too, but the smell of the cantine would, I suspect, be very familiar.......

MWJ - no wine in collège here.

 

[Teamedup]

Re the cheese, even in France not all kids like camembert or brie. My eldest would have wolfed everyone who didn't like it down and the younger would have left it.

Re the soon to be born daughter.............. that is so common here for those parents who know the sex of their soon to be born child. One must have a name ready for the birth as the birth has to be registered within 48 hours. And woe betide you if you haven't got a name for your child, the Mairie will give it one. So for those who know the sex, I have heard a lot of my friends who were soon to be grandmothers........ I'm that age now..........calling the unborn by name....... personally it send shudders through me and I don't like it at all. But it is like that never the less.

TU who prefers not to know the sex of an unborn until it is really born and to name it at that point.

[Mistral]

My elder kids' school sometimes publishes the menu for the month on the outside noticeboard, but not always. There wasn't one for September, I hane't looked for October yet. We certainly don't get a menu sheet suggesting what we could give them in the evening to complement it. Although I recently read a magazine article giving evening suggestions to go with the perrenial favourites.

My collège sticks the week's menu over the swipe card machine for the cantine. My husband's has the same menu as the primaries in the town (it's a bit complicated, although it's a collège, the buildings, cantine and cleaning staff are run by the mairie not the conseil général)

In my last collège, the pupils always had a "milk product" not necessarily cheese and then a dessert. The teachers had a cheese board as well.

I've never seen pupils offered alcohol of any sort but it is normal for teachers to have wine with their meal. When I worked in Normandy, there was a choice between wine and cider and in Belfort (near Alsace) there was a choice between red and white wine and beer.

I'm just wondering. Does everybody realise that teachers do not sit with the children. Sometimes they have a separate table, but in every school I have worked in, they have a separate room.

TU, about knowing the sex. I've got used to that but I do find it a bit odd to refer to the baby by name before it's born. We had a choice of 2 names per sex (which we never knew) so we could choose once we had seen him/her. Each time, the hospital staff would try and fill in as much of the forms as possible before the birth so you would get them asking "so what sex is it?" we would say we didn't know so they would go on to the next question "so what name have you chosen?" yeah, right.

[SaligoBay]

"I'm just wondering. Does everybody realise that teachers do not sit with the children. Sometimes they have a separate table, but in every school I have worked in, they have a separate room."

My son just told me this this morning, Mistral, when I asked him about wine.  He said "Why would we have wine, we're too young.  The teachers might, but they eat in a different room." 

It surprised me, because when I wos little at school dinners, the teachers had their own table in the same room as us.  We used to think the headmaster was VERY posh, he used a napkin, and sometimes even used it to wipe his mouth!

[Dick Smith]

TU wrote: "Re the cheese, even in France not all kids like camembert or brie. My eldest would have wolfed everyone who didn't like it down"

I do hope this was a solecism, TU, and not an indication that cannibalism is rife in your family...

On naming the unborn - it just seems like tempting fate to me.

[Chauffour]

Dick,

do you live around Riberac/St Severin? i saw someone who looks like you, but sligtly older... are you cheating with your 20 year old photo?  

 

Massimo

[Teamedup]

Everyone........ this is my faux pas in french, I find it so easy to say anyone or everyone, instead of anything or everything.......... leaves me howling with laughter everytime.

My kids wouldn't have been full for long with such a meal. As growing lads they needed rather more feculant than the bit of bread that would be served. They really would have needed some pates, riz or puree with that meal.

 

[Jill<br><br>Jill (99)]

Surely the school in the article must have been a private one to be serving such pretentious dishes.

>>>“A few of my English friends seem to be genuinely shocked that packed lunches aren't allowed.”

Yes, the French Students I worked with when they came to England on Sejours Linguistiques were also shocked that they had to have a packed lunch along with the English students they stayed with, and if they did stay for School Dinners, they were shocked at the quality of them. Having said this, the ones who stayed with us were not healthy eaters as many would only eat plain pasta and not the sauces containing meat and vegetables served with it, or if we served English type meals, they didn’t eat vegetables. We found most French students to be quite difficult to please and although I could understand that they might have problems in many of the English households they were accommodated in, other less fussy eaters who stayed with us, were pleased at the variety of food at our house and ate well. When my penfriend and her sister’s daughters came to stay, they refused my gravey and went to get the grease I had drained off the chicken juices before making the gravy – yuk!

I don’t know why the French have such an objection to packed lunches – I think it is far easier to ensure that children are eating healthily. My son takes sandwiches either tuna, ham, chicken, hummous, cheese, on seeded wholemeal bread and often takes a few cherry tomatoes or olives separately. Sometimes he has leftover home made pizza. My daughter was making her own salads while she was in school with pasta, rice or lettuce and adding things like nuts, chicken, seeds, yoghurt, sultanas, ham, feta cheese, olives, peppers etc. These seem perfectly healthy packed lunches to me.

My daughter attended a lycee in Annecy with her penfriend for a week, but they came home every lunch time and spent a long time over a traditional French meal.

Also, when we visited my then-boss in Annecy, she “treated” us to lunch at a college (with whom her language company had an arrangement) round the corner from the office. We had what looked like an ashtray containing lentils – not much flavour the way they were done. Then we had poulet boulangere I think they called it – chicken portions cooked in red wine, apparently – it was just a thin greasy sauce with not much flavour and this was served with overcooked, slimy spaghetti. Sorry, but to me, pasta needs a proper pasta sauce with it or if it is to be served dry, it needs cheese or at least some butter and black pepper. Also, spaghetti always seems to go more soggy than other pasta shapes. There were some desserts and cheese – can’t remember what but probably it would have been camembert or something similar and I can’t stand those types of French cheese anyway. Anyway, it was the worst meal I’ve ever eaten in France!

In England, my kids gave up on school dinners a long time ago as they were sick of chips. The school introduced a non chip day and served pasta or rice – but logically, a bolognese, chilli or curry ought to have been available – but no – they were to go with sausage rolls or pizza!

>>>“(who will never forget the veggies boiled to extinction and the slaps for refusing them - anything has to be better, even chicken nuggets!)”

I was kept in at lunchtime when I was about 6 because I wouldn’t eat salad with cold LUMPY mashed potato and a slice of orange on the potato. I wouldn’t eat that combination now! After that, the school told my mum it was a waste of money having me stay school dinners, so I went home to a diet of cheese on toast or tomato soup!!!! Anyway, I never did like salad until I first ate it in France with vinaigrette and I still only like mashed potato if I’ve bashed hell out of the potatoes and put in lots of butter or crème fraiche!.

>>>“And it wasn't too bad in the 70s either”

wasn’t it? Well when I was in Junior School, until 1970 – and by then I did stay dinners occasionally, the food was bought in large metal containers from a central kitchen which fed all the schools in the area. Everything was tasteless and overcooked. But when I went to secondary school, it was much better. They did a delicious Egg and Cheese pie (quiche to us now, but thicker and stodgier) and some other good meat pies and the vegetables weren’t to bad either. Nottingham Uni did a delicious “Faggot Pie” – well it was supposed to be Shepherds pie, but we were convinced it was faggots – mmm!

>>>“personally I'm very fond of celeri remoulade and grated beetroot!”

You certainly get this in French homes and although I’m not so keen on it as a starter, I do buy the celeri remoulade to go with barbecues when I’m in France.

>>>“Re the cheese, even in France not all kids like camembert or brie”

Yes, when I met up with the previously mentioned penfriend and her younger children aged 6 and 12 this summer, I was surprised to find she was giving them slices of a dutch or danish plastic looking cheese! Surprised me coming from a family which had been so traditional when I first stayed with them in 1976!

I agree with those of you who didn’t like the idea of knowing the sex and name of children before they are born. Surely if a child then dies at birth or is miscarried, it must make it even harder as they child will have taken on more of a character. We chose boys names and girls names before our children were born, but didn’t tell them to anyone until they were actually born. My Finnish penfriend only told her friends and family the sex of her children AFTER they were born, but wouldn’t tell anyone the name until they were Christened – seems very strange!

Sorry for such a long posting but everyone raised so many different aspects within it and no one got side tracked! Very interesting topic.

[letrangere]

Jill, I was thinking of the woman interviewed and her comment on French school dinners in the 70s.  On the other side of the Channel at the time mine were indescribably awful.

By the way, I think you're all terribly unkind to the poor old Parisiens.  And why is that they're the only people on this French Forum that one can be rude to and get away with it? 

M

 

 

 

[Val_2]

My son has refused to eat at the Lycée canteen any more. He says he can recognise the meat two days later as the same he had before, even where they have cut it with a knife!! and the kids just won't eat anything except for the yoghurt or wrapped Ice cream bars for pud. He now takes sandwiches and eats them quiety and secretly in the library every day as his mates all go home to eat but we live 14 miles away and its not possible to do. Surely they must see from the amount of waste that its just money down the drain and the kids aren't eating properly. I wanted to make a fuss to the director but he says not to get involved or it could be hard on him in class.

[Miki]

Our Daughter, first year at a local Lycée Superior Ed. (16km) takes in a meal for one (a microwave and a small kitchen are supplied for those that prefer not to eat in the cantine) yoghurt, juice and a snack bar or what ever she fancies for lunch. She is not alone and says that all the kids that use the kitchen and dining area are so much happier now, than having to eat what has been on offer in the cantines of whatever school they had been at.

The last two years at the previous Lycée, due to terrible meals available, she ate at a small snack bar most days due to fact there was nowhere sensible to eat a packed lunch.

Downside to new school, getting up half hour early to catch the bus (07h00)   

[Teamedup]

RE school buses, my youngest had to catch the 10 to seven bus each morning, getting him there at 7.20, starting school at 8 and for all he finished at 5, the next bus home was at 20 past six, what long days they were for a 12 year old. At least the meals were OK at that school, although they were very expensive.

[Miki]

TU,

The cost of the school meals at her new Lycée are 5€80cts per day = 29€ per week and the bus is reduced to 23€90 per week (5 days only) or 7€ 50 per day !! It is not a designated school bus but is a scheduled route run by Cars 35. The handy thing is that there is a bus that departs 15 mins after any of her school days, which vary by as much as 2 hours. (15.50 to 17.50 finish)

As she is in Lycee Superieur now, she is not allowed the 65€ yearly bus pass, like the kids in the year below. What they mean is, if you want to study further than Lycée you gotta pay !! Fair enough, she will not have the huge debts her brothers have from going to Uni in the UK but I think their chances of good prospects are far greater than hers will be here. Elder brother has done really well, mostly off his own back and what he has managed to achieve, we truly believe he could not have done here.

[SaligoBay]

Miki said "she is not allowed the 65€ yearly bus pass".

WHAT?????  65 euros a year for a school bus?  You cannot be serious.

We pay 95 euros a trimestre. Woot! 

Flat.

On.

My.

Back.

Better get up, nearly time to go and get Him.  From said Skool Bus.  Mumble mumble, can't find suitable smiley.

[Teamedup]

Post BAC students around here used to have to pay their travel expenses, although I'm not sure if that is still the case.

We used to have to pay each year for transport scolaire, but then they stopped charging at one point, and I have no idea as to whether they have restarted payments around here or not.

School dinners were in comparison reasonably priced in the state college my son attended, but the meals were very expensive in the private school though, but he used to say that they were OK.

However, the state school payments were worked out on seven days a week, and if not 365 days a year, was certainly a lot more than the kids actually attended school. No reimbursement was made if the kid missed a few days school through illness, they used to have to be off quite some time before we would get any reduction. And then when one did get a reduction it was based on this seven days a week thing and would be say 60p per day off the bill. Everyone used to complain, but that was the system........... I wonder if it is still like that.

[Miki]

Post BAC students around here used to have to pay their travel expenses, although I'm not sure if that is still the case.

They still do here but with a slight discount, the discount she receives is a weekly bus pass that she has to show her carte etudiante to qualify. In Rennes, the new (ish) Metro is really cheap and was designed in no small part for the thousands of students at the Unis in Rennes to get about cheaply. Shame they didn't keep tunnelling to Saint Malo really !

SB, what a dear region the Languedoc is, no wonder the tea leaves are about in Montpellier. Probably trying to drum up enough to get a yearly bus pass to get to ASSEDIC !!

Her younger friends all get the 65€ bus pass but you have to live in the 35 (Ille et Vilaine), well at least in this area anyway, might be all over but don't quote me.

[Chrisb]

We are obviously spoilt up here in Normandy.  The transport scolaire to college is free and meals are 4,10€/day - for which there is a daily ticket system for college, and in primaire, if they are off sick, you do not pay for that days meal. Both my children love their school meals, and my youngest son, who was a very fussy eater, will eat almost anything now. I do find it a bit strange, however, that the eldest has lunch at 11.30am, 3 days a week, although he prefers the earlier sitting as he then gets a choice of meals. He is pretty hungry by the time he gets home at 5.30!

Chris